What compound shocked you?

[danieltx]

Yes long and short.

Lantus or NPH ( Novolin N) and Novolin R

And novolin R intramuscular

Get Humalog or Novolog - it will make a noticeable difference from Novolin R.

And great job on the transformation!

 

[Parabolic33]

Get Humalog or Novolog - it will make a noticeable difference from Novolin R.

And great job on the transformation!

Thanks! Also you really think so, I have tried novolog, and when both are taken IM I didn’t notice a difference. However when I take Novolin R subQ, the difference is massive. it takes about an hr to kick in subq but IM it takes exactly 8 minutes when I take novolin for me. I only know that because I start my stopwatch on my watch as soon as I take it to try and time it from when I was doing it subQ. But now IM I can take the novolin R as soon as I eat or even right after finishing the meal.

But Novolog( not Humalog actually) actually has the highest igf1 receptor affinity out of all the insulin analogs, with Lantus comming second. So for that reason Novolog is tempting, but it’s just that Novolin R is so cheap and I can pick it up right down the street at Walmart lol. It’s one of the only things I skimp on

 

[danieltx]

Thanks! Also you really think so, I have tried novolog, and when both are taken IM I didn’t notice a difference. However when I take Novolin R subQ, the difference is massive. it takes about an hr to kick in subq but IM it takes exactly 8 minutes when I take novolin for me. I only know that because I start my stopwatch on my watch as soon as I take it to try and time it from when I was doing it subQ. But now IM I can take the novolin R as soon as I eat or even right after finishing the meal.

But Novolog( not Humalog actually) actually has the highest igf1 receptor affinity out of all the insulin analogs, with Lantus comming second. So for that reason Novolog is tempting, but it’s just that Novolin R is so cheap and I can pick it up right down the street at Walmart lol. It’s one of the only things I skimp on

Don't get so neurotic about this shit - that will hold you back from making progress.

I used Novolin R for about 2 years and made better progress when I switched to Humalog and Novolog. For reference I spend most of the year bulked up at a decently lean 280-290lbs. and diet down to around 235lbs. at 5%.

 

[gains4000]

Don't get so neurotic about this shit - that will hold you back from making progress.

I used Novolin R for about 2 years and made better progress when I switched to Humalog and Novolog. For reference I spend most of the year bulked up at a decently lean 280-290lbs. and diet down to around 235lbs. at 5%.

I agree with this , but I’m curious on what’s your reasonings behind this? Do you think rapid acting insulin is more anabolic than R insulin?

 

[epoxy]

M1T when I was young. Ran it solo, gains were WTF even though I had no idea what I was doing.
GH + Humalog when I got older. Made gains again like I was 21. Made Tren look it was for wimps (it is). I can also now (pushing 40) see why the protocol is more for pros or those who are really serious. Harder to do multiple GH and insulin shots per day when you have 50 other things going on.

 

[prodaf]

SDROL

 

[goback2013]

SDROL

Yes. Sdrol had me playing with weights.
Anadrol as well, but without the lethargy.
But sdrol even more so.

 

[graybass]

Might as well add my .02.
For me it was Tren E. I ran 800 ew with a decent amount of Test. Ran for many months. Made me bigger, stronger, and leaner.
It also turned me into a giant asshole!

 

[omoplata]

Almost want to
Keep some of these my secret, but here goes lol

Keep in mind, I’m not crazy big or anything, but in terms of the rate in which I’ve grown lean tissue, I think I have some valid reason for my opinions.

So #1 igf1lr3. Yea, high purity igf1lr3 when you learn how to run it without desensitization, you can push a 1500 calorie surplus and do nothing but grow. I’ve seen 3lb per week, week after week lean for the major of weeks the entire first year of lifting while running igf1lr3. I’ve tried up to 10iu pharma and generic gh, and it wasn’t a comparison to be honest. Not in the way I was able to push a surplus of carbs and protein to literally force lean growth. I couldn’t get fat while using this stuff. Like yes, there was some fat, but I gained 68lb of contractile tissue in my first year of lifting.

Granted it’s hard to separate perfectly because I’ve gone at the anabolic, igf1, insulin, training, and sleep pathway since day 1 of training essentially. But I notice that when I was first deciding if igf1 was useful, on the same diet calorie wise my weight shot up much faster than with high dose gh.

My preferred Igf/gh pathway stack now is 12.5mg mk677 and 100-200mcg igf1lr3.

6 weeks on igf1lr3 with 150mg tren A cycled on during the last 3 weeks of that because it noticeably extends the effect of igf1 before noticing the effect drop off.

It’s the only reason why I will use tren in the off-season. And even then I like to not stay on it as my base. I pull it during the 1 week off igf1lr3 and for the first 3 weeks of igf1lr3.

So this cuts my trenbolone exposure in half almost.

All I know is that it’s worked for me and I’ve grown from 128lb to 218 at my peak this last offseason in less than 2 years since I first started lifting. So nearly 100lb of contractile tissue in under 2 years of no muscle memory and no signs of slowing down.


#2 I’m about to get shit on and even anger people with this one. Because it happens almost every time I talk about it. Bodybuilders are still allergic to the term estrogen to some degree. Only in the last decade have they become luke warm to the idea of letting testosterone aromatize to some decent level of estrogen somewhat high in the reference range.

But.. #2 is exogenous estradiol valerate intramuscular.

I haven’t proven shit yet when it comes to this. But I have some speculative opinion on it regardless. But I have gathered some “anecdata” on myself, and have heard strong anecdotes from high levels coaches who I’ve spoken with who notice their athletes will stall out in progress after a certain period on cycle. Usually 4-6 months and growth will plataue for some and they will even have them stop and clear out for a while to re-sensitize. There is speculation that this is from Shbg becoming depleted below a certain threshold. Just like how some estrogen is required for anabolism to occur, and the best growth does not occur with crushed estrogen levels in the off-season, the same may be true for Shbg. It has been proven that like estradiol enhances the activity of cyclic amp inside the cell when free testosterone binds, the same has been shown for the Shbg-receptor complex on the cell membrane, when a free floating androgen binds to the Shbg molecule on the receptor complex. When this happens cAMP activity inside the cell is increased when regular free androgens bind.

The reason why exogenous estradiol is important here is because estradiol is a stimulus to produce Shbg. And because Testosterone and DHT have by far the highest binding affinity to Shbg, and thus ability to deplete Shbg. So to stay on cycle at a high dose, and have Shbg be raised up again, we need estradiol moderately high and testosterone and DHT to be low. So here is where you would use a Deca only cycle, EQ only cycle, primo only cycle, insert steroid here- that When run by themselves, do not aromatize sufficiently. And this is where estradiol valerate IM comes in. Run a gram of EQ or whatever ya like, but keep your e2 to the same 40-70pg/ml you prefer it at- the same as if you had a testosterone base. Only because you don’t have a testosterone base; you’re not lowering your Shbg and letting it come back up.

This only takes like 2-5 weeks for Shbg to come up this way. You could be on 500 Test prop and a 500 primo. You’d then cut the Test Prop and bump the primo to 1000, then after 2-3 days of test prop clearing, introduce 0.8ish mg Estradiol Valerate IM every other day for that period of time.

I found 2.8mg estradiol valerate to equal 20mg/ml additional e2, but you may be more sensitive and need more or less. I currently use 1.6mg every other day which equals 5.6mg total Estradiol Valerate per week when doing this protocol.

I’ve done it with every compound mostly except for Proviron, which I suspect would deplete Shbg even without test in the cycle.


I feel that maintaining my Shbg level in the 15-20nmol/L range has allowed me to keep blasting and not plateaue.

I have data on myself to show that my growth rate slowed when I deliberately crushed my Shbg levels to single digit for an experiment, and I also have data showing that my growth rate increased back up again after being on cycle for 5 months, then performing this Shbg raising protocol. My growth rate actually measurably increased scale weight wise and body part measurements wise.


Ultimately I’d love for somebody else to try this protocol so I can finally shut up about this Shbg thing. I’m actually annoying myself with it. That’s why I just want somebody else to try it and have it either work or not so I can let it be, finally.

Do you see any effect on Blood sugar or appetite with estrogen? As in does your blood sugar fluctuate up or down unpredictably? And does it make you hungrier?

 

[Parabolic33]

Do you see any effect on Blood sugar or appetite with estrogen? As in does your blood sugar fluctuate up or down unpredictably? And does it make you hungrier?

The exogenous estrogen behaves identical to aromatized testosterone for me.

I have noticed that if I have very low estrogen, I am less hungry.

With a solid 50-70pg/ml e2 that’s where I feel my best in general and my appetite feels normal.

But this is my experience when I’m running high dose test that results in this same level, or if I’m using little or zero test and all my e2 is coming in exogenously through estradiol valerate injection.

 

[Parabolic33]

Don't get so neurotic about this shit - that will hold you back from making progress.

I used Novolin R for about 2 years and made better progress when I switched to Humalog and Novolog. For reference I spend most of the year bulked up at a decently lean 280-290lbs. and diet down to around 235lbs. at 5%.

Ok thanks for that tip.

Side note, since I’m nowhere near that size, I just hit my highest of 218 this off-season somewhere in the 13-17% bodyfat range I’m dieting down again, but the weight on the scale doesn’t seem to come off easily despite getting leaner.

The same happened during my first ever cut last year which I started the cut at 193 and ended at the same weight of 189-195. So I’ve always wondered how guys like you are so huge, lean, but loose so much weight. Im wondering if the weight coming from intramuscular fat stores being more significant since you have a larger volume of muscle to store fat in and that’s where the weight comes from. Either that or you just have a larger body and have more total subQ fat by weight despite it being the same 13-17% bodyfat%.

Because I suspect there will be a point when I start to cut and the weight comes off more significantly. I think it’s just because I’m newer and smaller than you, but wonder where the weight comes from if it’s not actual muscle loss from dieting down.

 

[Parabolic33]

I agree with this , but I’m curious on what’s your reasonings behind this? Do you think rapid acting insulin is more anabolic than R insulin?

This is just my thought on it. But the faster you can get the insulin in, you’re able to push carbs that much harder into the muscle and assimilate a higher glycemic load, which itself is anabolic.

So if rapid insulin works faster than regular insulin taken IM, then I’d def see how rapid is more anabolic. But ultimately I think long and rapid serve different functions since with rapid your pushing a higher peak of sugar and nutrients, and with long like with Lantus your just keeping your baseline state of continuous intake of fuel higher.

 

[danieltx]

I agree with this , but I’m curious on what’s your reasonings behind this? Do you think rapid acting insulin is more anabolic than R insulin?

I don't know the science behind it.

I look at it as I want to control my insulin as much as possible. When I want insulin I want as much as possible as fast as possible, and when I don't want it I want it out of me as quickly as possible. I don't want insulin hanging around and promoting fat gain, I only want it in when I have a bunch of protein and carbs to shove in the muscles.

 

[danieltx]

Ok thanks for that tip.

Side note, since I’m nowhere near that size, I just hit my highest of 218 this off-season somewhere in the 13-17% bodyfat range I’m dieting down again, but the weight on the scale doesn’t seem to come off easily despite getting leaner.

The same happened during my first ever cut last year which I started the cut at 193 and ended at the same weight of 189-195. So I’ve always wondered how guys like you are so huge, lean, but loose so much weight. Im wondering if the weight coming from intramuscular fat stores being more significant since you have a larger volume of muscle to store fat in and that’s where the weight comes from. Either that or you just have a larger body and have more total subQ fat by weight despite it being the same 13-17% bodyfat%.

Because I suspect there will be a point when I start to cut and the weight comes off more significantly. I think it’s just because I’m newer and smaller than you, but wonder where the weight comes from if it’s not actual muscle loss from dieting down.

In general the bigger you are the more weight you lose when dieting. The bigger you are the more water you hold, the more glycogen you hold, more intramuscular fat, etc.

 

[machinemind]

RPN Havoc was completely transformative, the fullness from it was outrageous. It was allegedly the same as Epistane, but you can never really know for sure. Used SNS Inhibit-E for PCT, unfortunately, young and stupid.

 

[trenned]

Growth hormone shocked me the first time I used it. At just 3-4IU I had ankled rolling over my socks (at single digit bf). It was scary. Carpal tunnel stayed for a month after I stopped. It was liquid premixed GH of some kind. I would post pics but it was so ridiculously bad I would forever be known as the cankles guy on this forum.

 

[goback2013]

eAs creatine circa 1995-1996.
I remember first touching 225 on bench after a week on this stuff. The next week I hit 275. The week after 315.
I started out only benching 185 at a weight of 190. Ended up at 220 and perma-pumped all the time. stretch marks everywhere. An uncle I hadn't seen in a few years didn't even recognize me when I picked him up at the airport
After those first few bottles ran out. I saw my gains piss away after a couple weeks.
I tried all forms of creatine during the mid-late 90s. Nothing compared to those first few EAS bottles I purchased. Not even did a repurchase of eas creatine restore strength/pump.

 

[Nephilim88]

I'm very aggressive but calm at the same time on tren. Well when taken in small amounts. 30mg per week max.
Any more and I'm walking around pissed, with a short fuse, and veins sticking out around my temples.

30mgs a week is nothing. Good you get results with that

 

[Dezzy]

eAs creatine circa 1995-1996.
I remember first touching 225 on bench after a week on this stuff. The next week I hit 275. The week after 315.
I started out only benching 185 at a weight of 190. Ended up at 220 and perma-pumped all the time. stretch marks everywhere. An uncle I hadn't seen in a few years didn't even recognize me when I picked him up at the airport
After those first few bottles ran out. I saw my gains piss away after a couple weeks.
I tried all forms of creatine during the mid-late 90s. Nothing compared to those first few EAS bottles I purchased. Not even did a repurchase of eas creatine restore strength/pump.

phosphagen...ah those where the days...

​

 

[Zamun]

Growth hormone shocked me the first time I used it. At just 3-4IU I had ankled rolling over my socks (at single digit bf). It was scary. Carpal tunnel stayed for a month after I stopped. It was liquid premixed GH of some kind. I would post pics but it was so ridiculously bad I would forever be known as the cankles guy on this forum.

Oh hell yeah. Post pics. Let’s turn this into another feet and thin skin thread.