Dat's super simplified GH secretagogue thread

FuckOprah · Jul 13, 2009

Thanks a lot dat, my plan is im going to be cutting for like 3-4months and ill be taking ghrp2/6 pre-bed, by the time im done with my cut ill be around 4-6% bf then ill be shooting 3x a day w/ cjc, slin and ill be running and anabolic cycle as well, prob test + deca. Again thanks, i highly value your words.

DatBtrue · Jul 13, 2009

FuckOprah said:
oh and one more question dat, can you refer me to any books on insulin, gh, igf etc.

Do you mean science books?

Here are two of my most outstanding posts (I'm not sure if you have read these posts).

Protein Metabolism - The complementary role of various hormones in inducing Anabolism

It covers:

Insulin
Growth Hormone
Amino Acid Pool
Exercise
Blood Flow
IGF-1
IGF-1/IGFBP-3
Androgens
Thyroid Hormones

What does GH contribute to anabolism besides creating IGF-1?

bigguns078 · Jul 13, 2009

Amino Acids: taken orally or thru injection

It seems like most studies with amino acids are done by injection rather than taken orally.. This is also the case in race horses.. I notice alot of their supplementation is by injection.. Are amino acids better taken by injection rather than orally? If so, how come you don't see or hear about companies offering amino acids like (arginine, glutamine, leucine, etc.) in hefty doseages by injection.. It seems like if someone put toghether a super amino profile (since bodybuilders use so many of them) in an injectable form.. Then you can take your morning, preworkout, postworkout, betime, etc. injections and get everything your looking to supplement..

EasyEJL · Jul 13, 2009

bigguns078 said:
It seems like most studies with amino acids are done by injection rather than taken orally.. This is also the case in race horses.. I notice alot of their supplementation is by injection.. Are amino acids better taken by injection rather than orally? If so, how come you don't see or hear about companies offering amino acids like (arginine, glutamine, leucine, etc.) in hefty doseages by injection.. It seems like if someone put toghether a super amino profile (since bodybuilders use so many of them) in an injectable form.. Then you can take your morning, preworkout, postworkout, betime, etc. injections and get everything your looking to supplement..

because...

injectibles aren't legal to be sold OTC in the US.

mxer_kx · Jul 13, 2009

thanks dat

yes I'm definetly not looking to over complicate things, infact the more simple the better, it's more so facinatinting to know about these things and all te different avenues one could take, I more so am looking to"optomize" the most amount of results using the least amount of compounds and as I mentioned befor I have many different ideas flowing through my head which has brought to something I would like to try Hypetheticall when it comes to a anabolic phase, after a thorough prepping basicly a slightly differant blast cruise method toggeling growth and recovery in 5 week increments, if at all possible could I get your opinion on it ? If so would a pm be more appropriate ? If not that's cool to

DatBtrue said:
With D.C. do not go to absolute draining failure before the first rest pause. That is a mistake Dante said a lot of people make and that is why they can barely do another rep in the next rest pause.

You can't do everything. All of these things are simply tools.

For instance I am now trying to see what it takes to grow lean tissue w/ my life style... because if I ever write a book it will be about alternate day fasting.

So on eat day I consume a lot more red meat. I eat all the carbs I want. I use GHRP-6/CJC and testosterone and my training style is abbreviated, intense and non lockout.

The fasting day does many things, including make my tissue more insulin sensitive and nutrient portioning ready to favor muscle.

That is basically it... for the moment.

I have though about a caprylic acid injection run in a tiny muscle/striation I want to bring out but beyond that I am keeping it simple at the moment...

Its kind of like people who diet throw everything at the diet on day one...cardio, calorie reduction, reduce carbs, ECA stack, etc.

That is not the way you do it. You make subtle changes and you keep the fat loss going by introducing a little tweak as you go along and calorie reduction is not a great tool.

CHAPS · Jul 13, 2009

I was reading over some of your older posts today Brut and I saw you touch on the subject of GH getting bound up because of prolactin, so could could you not use Pramipexole and run a lower dose of gh /cjc+ghrp? Also what are your thoughts on vet grade injectable L-carnitine it seems alot more affordable. I also wanted to get your opinion on post-workout carbs, do you believe that they are necessary and do they HAVE to be high glycemic? Poliquin has a whey+glutamine+glycine protocol that seems like it would keep gh elevated to keep fatburning up.

bigguns078 · Jul 13, 2009

EasyEJL said:
because...

injectibles aren't legal to be sold OTC in the US.

Well... Oral liquids.. That could be injected.. Like sythetek products..

EasyEJL · Jul 13, 2009

well, barrier #2 is volume. even with injectibles being more bioavailable in this case doesn't make that much difference. What I mean is losses to digestion and crossing into bloodstream are not that high, so injecting for instance 5g of egg protein which would need to be in at least 5ml of water i'm guessing (if not far more) would only be a little better than eating the 5g. Mostly with aminos it gets them in faster. even if injecting vs ingesting is 4x more effective, you could only manage to inject the lower volume aminos effectively, yet the big ones are the rate limiters.

Damn, this feels like a run on sentence. So for some of the aminos this would work, but for instance leucine, isoleucine, valine, you need far too much a day for even the difference in injectible vs oral to be worth injecting it. Plus most of the aminos what you want is a steady supply in bloodstream rather than a spike that is stored in certain tissue. Carnitine is a little different than many of the others, for instance a spike in l-alanine by injecting it would all just get turned to glucose by gluconeogenesis.

FuckOprah · Jul 13, 2009

yes books would be nice, its not that im not reading your posts just something on the go or when i don't have a computer, cuz im away from my computer off and on for long periods of time.

DatBtrue · Jul 14, 2009

CHAPS; said:
I was reading over some of your older posts today Brut and I saw you touch on the subject of GH getting bound up because of prolactin, so could could you not use Pramipexole and run a lower dose of gh /cjc+ghrp?

It is prolactin receptors and prolactin binding protein that interact with the GH ligand.

CHAPS; said:
Also what are your thoughts on vet grade injectable L-carnitine it seems alot more affordable.

Never used it. It needs to be sterile so that is your starting point.

CHAPS; said:
I also wanted to get your opinion on post-workout carbs, do you believe that they are necessary and do they HAVE to be high glycemic?

Depends on what your goals are. Low GI carbs have a reduced impact on insulin.

When I am in weightloss mode I use lower GI whole foods. On the other hand if I want insulin higher to help with amino acid utilization and protein synthesis then I use high GI carbs.

Take today for instance. I had 225 grams of steak and 115 grams of lean ground beef post workout. I also had a bunch of carbs. Junk carbs... because they are tasty, it sates me mentally and it serves a purpose. Barley and lentils are wasted because I am trying to grow some.

Pre workout I had mod GI carbs like oatmeal so I wouldn't need to take in carbs during the workout. I also had 225 grams of ground beef so I would have plenty of protein circulating... no need for amino acids while I worked out.

All of this changes if I were to use insulin.

CHAPS; said:
Poliquin has a whey+glutamine+glycine protocol that seems like it would keep gh elevated to keep fatburning up.

Whey has an impact on insulin which blunts (but doesn't eliminate) GH's lipolysis. I usually just say that you won't lose fat w/ GH in the presence of insulin. Glycine has just enough science behind it to allow people to sell an OTC product as GH releasing.

The only herbal I use to help increase GHRP-6's GH release effect is Mucuna Pruriens.

DatBtrue · Jul 14, 2009

Sure PM me thats cool. That way we can talk more specifically about you and what you are doing instead of general discussion.

mxer_kx said:
thanks dat

yes I'm definetly not looking to over complicate things, infact the more simple the better, it's more so facinatinting to know about these things and all te different avenues one could take, I more so am looking to"optomize" the most amount of results using the least amount of compounds and as I mentioned befor I have many different ideas flowing through my head which has brought to something I would like to try Hypetheticall when it comes to a anabolic phase, after a thorough prepping basicly a slightly differant blast cruise method toggeling growth and recovery in 5 week increments, if at all possible could I get your opinion on it ? If so would a pm be more appropriate ? If not that's cool to

EasyEJL · Jul 14, 2009

CHAPS said:
Also what are your thoughts on vet grade injectable L-carnitine it seems alot more affordable.

well, you can pick up 250g of l-carnitine for $25 or so, and make your own if cost is a big issue. In some ways that might be preferable anyhow, as you can probably get more than 200mg/ml in solution. Its metling point is 200 degress celsius, so you could bring it to 250 F after bottling to sterilize as well.

I think in many ways I find veterinary grade products more appealing than UG lab as since they are companies that sell to the public they have to keep a sterile medical grade environment even if it doesnt meet FDA human medication conditions (although sometimes it does and products are made on the same line).

CHAPS · Jul 14, 2009

EasyEJL said:
well, you can pick up 250g of l-carnitine for $25 or so, and make your own if cost is a big issue. In some ways that might be preferable anyhow, as you can probably get more than 200mg/ml in solution. Its metling point is 200 degress celsius, so you could bring it to 250 F after bottling to sterilize as well.

I think in many ways I find veterinary grade products more appealing than UG lab as since they are companies that sell to the public they have to keep a sterile medical grade environment even if it doesnt meet FDA human medication conditions (although sometimes it does and products are made on the same line).

It's just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy cheaper to use the vet stuff

longrob · Jul 14, 2009

Mucuna Pruriens

Dat,
How much Mucuna Pruriens do you take and when? Also, I read a high protein meal limits absorbsion of l-dopa and effectively lowers the dosage.
-Rob

DatBtrue · Jul 14, 2009

longrob said:
Dat,
How much Mucuna Pruriens do you take and when? Also, I read you should avoid eating too much protein for several hours before and after because protein digestive enzymes can affect the uptake and breakdown L-Dopa which effectively lowers the dosage.
-Rob

Several hours.

I take it on my fast day only so 250mgs EOD.

EasyEJL · Jul 14, 2009

CHAPS said:
It's just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy cheaper to use the vet stuff

hmm cheapest I found on vet grade was around $35 for a 100ml of 200mg/ml bottle. so thats 20g of carnitine plus water for $35, vs 250g for $25? am I missing something?

CHAPS · Jul 14, 2009

EasyEJL said:
hmm cheapest I found on vet grade was around $35 for a 100ml of 200mg/ml bottle. so thats 20g of carnitine plus water for $35, vs 250g for $25? am I missing something?

I was thinking of the vet stuff compared to synthetine not compared to making your own, smartass lol

hghslinturn · Jul 14, 2009

this thread is a success

thanks dat heres more questions

How much gh can i get pumped out by just blasting ghrp-6?

i know your not going to want to answer this but can you fill in the blanks. Im 27 years old.

ex. if i blast 100 3x a day id get ___iu's
if i blast 200 3x a day id get ___iu's
300 3x a day id get___iu's
400?
500?

is there a limit?

thanks dat. remember were too retarted to read your charts.

DatBtrue · Jul 14, 2009

hghslinturn; said:
this thread is a success

thanks dat heres more questions
...
thanks dat. remember were too retarted to read your charts.

This type of thing only works if the person you are speaking to (me) feels superior and needs to feel that way. Thats not me.

So stop putting yourself down. I'll answer your question.

100mcg of GHRP-6 3x a day = about 5iu of GH in plasma.

200mcg of GHRP-6 3x a day = about 7.5iu of GH in plasma.

300mcg of GHRP-6 3x a day = about 9iu of GH in plasma

400mcg of GHRP-6 3x a day = about 9iu of GH in plasma

500mcg of GHRP-6 3x a day = about 9iu of GH in plasma

Bobaslaw · Jul 14, 2009

DatBtrue said:
Several hours. I take it on my fast day only so 250mgs EOD.

BTW, I like to take some Green Tea Extract with my L-Dopa, when I do use it.
EGCG and EGC inhibit Dopamine Decarboxylase and potentially can reduce some peripheral tissue conversion (into Dopamine) before getting to cross the BBB.
A long while ago I did have lower BP and resting Heart Rate with high end daily dosing (self experimentation) of both L-Dopa/Green Tea Extract as opposed to straight L-Dopa.