Dat's - CJC-1295 & GHRP-6 (Basic Guides)

DatBtrue · Aug 19, 2008

fourthgen said:
1.) can you mix the ghrp and cjc with NACL water or should it only be bac water.

The average PH is slightly lower but that is of little consequence. There is no worry about the peptide with either reconstituting agent...the worry is with the end user.

Is there any bacteria in the vial? How do you know it is sterile...because "they" said so?

How about the lypholized powder is it sterile or is there bacteria in it? How do you know it is sterile...was it made in a GMP facility?

How about the salt water? Is that sterile?

What if a little bacteria makes its way into the vial or salt water after several uses?

What happens is that you may end up injecting bacteria into your body.

Bacteriostatic water with .9% BA is sufficient to kill all bacteria upon contact within 2 days. Studies have been done that demonstrate that sterilizing power.

So IF there is bacteria in the vial or in the powder or in the reconstituting agent itself it will die quickly upon contact with the BW.

So if you reconstitute with BW and you let it sit for 2 days you can pretty much be assured that you will not be injecting live bacteria into your body.

fourthgen said:
2.) If you have the cjc shipped to you and it takes a few days in the mail with no ice pack, will that degrade it? Does it constantly need to be cold 24/7.

It should be okay at reasonable temps for short periods of time. It is better though if even just a 50 cent gel pack is thrown in to "help".

GoneForever · Aug 20, 2008

Thanks so much for all your anwsers. Hopefully others had similar ?'s to mine so I dont feel selfish asking all of this, but I really appreciate your knowledge.

What are you thoughts about freezing premixed cjc and ghrp? For example say you have a 4mg vial of cjc and a 10mg vial of Ghrp6 and you reconstitute both with bac water. What do you think about drawing out all your doses in slin pins and storing them in the freezer, and using them within a day or two of unthawing in the fridge?

DatBtrue · Aug 20, 2008

fourthgen said:
What are you thoughts about freezing premixed cjc and ghrp?

It is less stable once reconstituted.

fourthgen said:
For example say you have a 4mg vial of cjc and a 10mg vial of Ghrp6 and you reconstitute both with bac water. What do you think about drawing out all your doses in slin pins and storing them in the freezer, and using them within a day or two of unthawing in the fridge?

That would probably be okay provided the mixture didn't undergo repeated (i.e. more than one) freeze thaw cycles and you use the frozen pins within a reasonable time frame. You'd probably be okay for 10 weeks. But longer than that you need to store the peptide in unreconstituted form.

There is more of a risk of damage to the CJC than the GHRP-6.

In any case make sure there is no air in the syringe after you load it. Cap the syringes and place them in ziplock bags...squeeze all the air out of the bag first and freeze in a container that keeps moisture out.

You're always thinking aren't you bro.

Thats a good thing. Your method is a lot more convenient for sure.

GoneForever · Aug 20, 2008

i was just worried b/c i may have 4mg vials of cjc which would last me a month and I thought that may be too long once mixed and stored in fridge but it sounds like anything under 10weeks is ok, so maybe I wont freeze them.

DatBtrue said:
It is less stable once reconstituted.

That would probably be okay provided the mixture didn't undergo repeated (i.e. more than one) freeze thaw cycles and you use the frozen pins within a reasonable time frame. You'd probably be okay for 10 weeks. But longer than that you need to store the peptide in unreconstituted form.

There is more of a risk of damage to the CJC than the GHRP-6.

In any case make sure there is no air in the syringe after you load it. Cap the syringes and place them in ziplock bags...squeeze all the air out of the bag first and freeze in a container that keeps moisture out.

You're always thinking aren't you bro. Thats a good thing. Your method is a lot more convenient for sure.

DatBtrue · Aug 21, 2008

fourthgen said:
i was just worried b/c i may have 4mg vials of cjc which would last me a month and I thought that may be too long once mixed and stored in fridge but it sounds like anything under 10weeks is ok, so maybe I wont freeze them.

I have a friend who has larger batches of both GHRP-6 & CJC-1295. He reconstitutes a 10 week supply into a vial he keeps refrigerated.

He draws out into the syringes what he needs for that days pinning and takes them to work where they sit at cool room temp for several hours before use.

So you should be fine bro.

GoneForever · Aug 24, 2008

Well I got all my goodies and im gonna start next week. Got a ? for yah Dat, I have about 35iu's of GH left. I was planning on finishing them of(5iu's EOD) and then starting my cjc/ghrp since i've already been on GH for a very long time, but now im wondering if it would be more benefitial if maybe I did like
1iu of GH in the mornings 5days on/2off with my cjc/ghrp pwo and before bed. I planned on using the cjc/ghrp6 for 8weeks and that is about the same time if I did the Gh at a super low dose at 1iu 5days on/2off. Wondering if this would be added benefits, or if I should just save the GH for another run.

DatBtrue · Aug 25, 2008

fourthgen said:
Well I got all my goodies and im gonna start next week. Got a ? for yah Dat, I have about 35iu's of GH left. I was planning on finishing them of(5iu's EOD) and then starting my cjc/ghrp since i've already been on GH for a very long time, but now im wondering if it would be more benefitial if maybe I did like
1iu of GH in the mornings 5days on/2off with my cjc/ghrp pwo and before bed. I planned on using the cjc/ghrp6 for 8weeks and that is about the same time if I did the Gh at a super low dose at 1iu 5days on/2off. Wondering if this would be added benefits, or if I should just save the GH for another run.

If I were you I'd keep them separate for now. That way after the CJC/GHRP run you will be able to accurately compare the two.

I think though that the way you decribed the mixing of the two...it could work. With the spacing and minimal synthetic GH dose it shouldn't interfere much with your CJC/GHRP induced secretion.

I know someone that added CJC to his high dose of synthetic GH and he said it added to the overall effect. But eventually he dropped the GH and switched over totally to the CJC/GHRP and likes that by itself even better. He knows his CJC/GHRP protocol is superior now because he put himself in a position to make the comparison in his own body. He no longer has to rely on what Dat says.

Now he says he wants to have my babys.

So I'd say run them by themselves so you can compare. Just promise not to offer me no babies...

GoneForever · Aug 25, 2008

haha thanks brother. I wont pon any off on yah. looking forward to this, and it will be nice not to have to use cabergoline anymore. I'll post updates when im deeper into it.

SoCo4Fun · Aug 25, 2008

so dat....how many 'ticks' on my 1cc pins should I be using?

GoneForever · Aug 26, 2008

[QUOTE
Optimally you could dose 100mcg of CJC-1295 w/ 100-400mcg of GHRP in the morning (on an empty stomach 25 minutes before eating); again in the afternoon/PWO; finally just before bed.
QUOTE]

If im only gonna do the cjc/ghrp pwo and before bed, how important is it to wait 25min pwo before having shake(protien+carbs) Usually I do my lifting then 30min of cardio, should I just shoot it after lifting, do my cardio and then eat or was first thing in the mornign the only time when waiting 25min is necassary. Thanks brother.

DatBtrue · Aug 26, 2008

SoCo4Fun said:
so dat....how many 'ticks' on my 1cc pins should I be using?

Your pin is only 1CC?

You need to see a surgeon my boy. Just tell him you have a micro-pin which isn't much of a useful tick at all. He'll fix you up.

Come back when you're sport'in a proud 10 CC and nobody will ever call you a "little tick" again.

DatBtrue · Aug 26, 2008

fourthgen said:
[QUOTE
Optimally you could dose 100mcg of CJC-1295 w/ 100-400mcg of GHRP in the morning (on an empty stomach 25 minutes before eating); again in the afternoon/PWO; finally just before bed.
QUOTE]

If im only gonna do the cjc/ghrp pwo and before bed, how important is it to wait 25min pwo before having shake(protien+carbs) Usually I do my lifting then 30min of cardio, should I just shoot it after lifting, do my cardio and then eat or was first thing in the mornign the only time when waiting 25min is necassary. Thanks brother.

That sounds like a good plan.

You should always try to admininster the CJC/GHRP first and wait a bit before eating.

The reason?

Unlike synthetic GH we are depending on the body to make GH for us. Once GH has been made and is circulating great...but we need to get it made first.

The studies show that circulating fatty acids can really inhibit the production of GHRH and carbs to a lesser extent.

The studies show that circulating fatty acids only blunt but do not inhibit the action of GHRPs. Carbs blunt but to a lesser extent.

It can be argued soundly that it doesn't matter because the CJC (GHRH) is not being made it is being injected. All it needs to do is act on the pituitary...so even in the presence of food it should still function.

However some of GHRP-6s benefit is inducing GHRH release from the hypothalamus. In addition food may blunt some of the pituitary action of GHRH.

So it is best to wait a bit.

How long?

Imagine or refer back to the release curves. GH release happens pretty quickly with either peptide or both together. Within the first 5 minutes the pulse of GH starts to rapidly rise and does so until it peaks at about the 30 minute mark. So I would think that you should always wait at least 10 minutes post administration to eat and if you have the time up to 30 minutes.

In the morning and PWO I administer CJC/GHRP-6 on an empty stomach and wait for 30 minutes. Then my insulin shot (if that happens to be part of my protocol at the time) and I eat.

However pre-bed I usually have plenty of fats in my system. I often (when not dieting) have peanut butter or some combo of fats/protein. I always wait at least 30 minutes after eating my last snack before administering the CJC/GHRP and going to bed.

I don't think the peanut butter in my system really effected my night-time GH release. I've been doing it this way for months and I think it works fine. No night-time hunger and I don't think it interferes with the GH release.

All this to say ...just give yourself a little time between administration & eating. If it is convienent to go 30 minutes do it...if not don't go that long.

Part of the beauty of CJC-1295 is that it stays around. So it is always going to continually act on the pituitary to release GH no matter that you are sometimes eating...

ERRATUM (1/20/2009): Clarification, fats including peanut butter should be avoided well BEFORE administration of peptides. I do not eat fats within a few hours of administration.

iron fist · Aug 26, 2008

Question

Could women also use cjc1295 ? If so, would the dosage be the same
as for a man ?

physicslifter · Aug 26, 2008

Dat, I appreciate your posts on this topic.

For you guys running CJC/GHRP what sides are you experiencing and how long did it take for them to become apparent? I guess what I'm asking is do you experience any of the HGH-like sides while on these compounds? I've been doing 1 mg CJC/week and 150 mg x 3/day of GHRP-6 and just want to know what to use as a gage to look for? I'm getting ready to add in Huperzine A, to see if that helps any...

GoneForever · Aug 26, 2008

Awesome bro thats a huge help. Usually before bed I have a 50g whey shake with 1-2tbsp olive oil so i'll try and slam that, then wait 30min and take my shot right before bed.

Also, maybe IM will be benefitial since there is a time/eating ratio that needs to occur and IM should get it in your system quicker. You think?

DatBtrue said:
That sounds like a good plan.

You should always try to admininster the CJC/GHRP first and wait a bit before eating.

The reason?

Unlike synthetic GH we are depending on the body to make GH for us. Once GH has been made and is circulating great...but we need to get it made first.

The studies show that circulating fatty acids can really inhibit the production of GHRH and carbs to a lesser extent.

The studies show that circulating fatty acids only blunt but do not inhibit the action of GHRPs. Carbs blunt but to a lesser extent.

It can be argued soundly that it doesn't matter because the CJC (GHRH) is not being made it is being injected. All it needs to do is act on the pituitary...so even in the presence of food it should still function.

However some of GHRP-6s benefit is inducing GHRH release from the hypothalamus. In addition food may blunt some of the pituitary action of GHRH.

So it is best to wait a bit.

How long?

Imagine or refer back to the release curves. GH release happens pretty quickly with either peptide or both together. Within the first 5 minutes the pulse of GH starts to rapidly rise and does so until it peaks at about the 30 minute mark. So I would think that you should always wait at least 10 minutes post administration to eat and if you have the time up to 30 minutes.

In the morning and PWO I administer CJC/GHRP-6 on an empty stomach and wait for 30 minutes. Then my insulin shot (if that happens to be part of my protocol at the time) and I eat.

However pre-bed I usually have plenty of fats in my system. I often (when not dieting) have peanut butter or some combo of fats/protein. I always wait at least 30 minutes after eating my last snack before administering the CJC/GHRP and going to bed.

I don't think the peanut butter in my system really effected my night-time GH release. I've been doing it this way for months and I think it works fine. No night-time hunger and I don't think it interferes with the GH release.

All this to say ...just give yourself a little time between administration & eating. If it is convienent to go 30 minutes do it...if not don't go that long.

Part of the beauty of CJC-1295 is that it stays around. So it is always going to continually act on the pituitary to release GH no matter that you are sometimes eating...

GoneForever · Aug 26, 2008

physicslifter said:
Dat, I appreciate your posts on this topic.

For you guys running CJC/GHRP what sides are you experiencing and how long did it take for them to become apparent? I guess what I'm asking is do you experience any of the HGH-like sides while on these compounds? I've been doing 1 mg CJC/week and 150 mg x 3/day of GHRP-6 and just want to know what to use as a gage to look for? I'm getting ready to add in Huperzine A, to see if that helps any...

Im extremely hungry about 10min after a ghrp6 shot. EXTREMELY. And thats only using 200mcg. This usually happens my first week on it, and after that the hunger goes away, which is why I always thought it needed to be cycled like 2wks on/2off but apparantly not.

DatBtrue · Aug 27, 2008

fourthgen said:
Awesome bro thats a huge help. Usually before bed I have a 50g whey shake with 1-2tbsp olive oil so i'll try and slam that, then wait 30min and take my shot right before bed.

Also, maybe IM will be benefitial since there is a time/eating ratio that needs to occur and IM should get it in your system quicker. You think?

Actually unless you are really fat or have scar tissue in the muscle you inject into water based injects have about the same release timing.

I know personally because my insulin injects result in the peak hitting at the same time no matter which way I go.

I also know because after you read study after study you easily see that it doesn't much matter.

It only matters when you read a MD magazine article where they build an entire article around one study and draw overly broad conclusions.

DatBtrue · Aug 27, 2008

physicslifter said:
Dat, I appreciate your posts on this topic.

For you guys running CJC/GHRP what sides are you experiencing and how long did it take for them to become apparent? I guess what I'm asking is do you experience any of the HGH-like sides while on these compounds? I've been doing 1 mg CJC/week and 150 mg x 3/day of GHRP-6 and just want to know what to use as a gage to look for? I'm getting ready to add in Huperzine A, to see if that helps any...

The GHRP-6 should via its innate mode of action supress somatostatin. That is one of the reasons it has synergy with GHRH (CJC). So an Acetylcholinesterase inhibitor such as Huperzine A is probably not going to help much...but it might?

The side-effects of water retention, carpal tunnel & diabetic effects are likely to be less with natural GH. Thats because natural GH is composed of a family of GH isoforms, unlike synthetic GH which is made up of just the isoform 22kDa.

Natural GH is made up of 22kDa but also 20kDa. 20kDa has been shown to have the same anabolic or growth promoting profile as 22kDa without some of those side-effects. So you may get some sleepy hands especially on 2mg per week. You will also get some lethargy which should lessen over time. You may get some water retention and if you are prone to sleep apnea it could get a little worse.

GHRP-6 will bring hunger in the first 2 weeks. Then the hunger effect will diminish but the positive effects will remain.

The hunger effect does not serve as a guide for determining the effectiveness of GHS.

From the study Growth Hormone (GH)-Independent Stimulation of Adiposity by GH Secretagogues, Sabrina Lall..., Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications 280, 132–138 (2001)

...Lipogenic [stimulating fat gain] and orexigenic [stimulating the appetite] effects mainly occur during the first 1–2 weeks of treatment [GHS use], and that an equilibrium is then reached with no further increase in body fat.

We also demonstrate that the increase in fat mass is accompanied by an increase in circulating leptin, providing a possible mechanism for the cessation of the adipogenic and orexigenic effects of GHS that occur during chronic exposure.

In essence if you resist increasing your caloric consumption during the first few weeks of GHS use then you will not gain fat...after that initial period the hunger effect diminishes greatly and administration of GHS will continue to elicit a GH secretory response.

DatBtrue · Aug 27, 2008

iron fist said:
Could women also use cjc1295 ?

Yes. Growth Hormone is a uni-sexual hormone. It is not specific to either sex and is present in both.

The primary difference appears to be the secretory release pattern. See the normal GH secretory pattern over 24 hours charted in my post #6 in this thread for both men & women.

Women have more pulses throughout the day and higher troughs. Men have a huge night-time pulse that results in most of their GH release for the day.

iron fist said:
If so, would the dosage be the same
as for a man ?

Dosages for children and women should probably be determined by weight. So 1mcg/kg is the saturation dose for either GHRH (CJC-1295) and also the GHRPs (GHRP-6, etc)

Unit Conversion:
1kg = 2.2lbs
50kgs = 110lbs
70kgs = 154lbs.

Also with women we are not overly concerned with supporting the night-time pulse...although it is probably a good idea to use the same dosing pattern as I laid out.

GoneForever · Aug 27, 2008

However pre-bed I usually have plenty of fats in my system. I often (when not dieting) have peanut butter or some combo of fats/protein. I always wait at least 30 minutes after eating my last snack before administering the CJC/GHRP and going to bed.

I always thought carbs were the only food that interacted with these peptides. Its very interesting that fats do as well. My new method is cjc/ghrp pwo, then 30min cardio then shake and pre bed is 50g whey/olive oil, then 30min later cjc/ghrp. So the peptides can react with carbs and fats, how about protien? Would it be ok to have some amino acids with the cjc/ghrp pwo or should even protien not be present at time of injection? Thanks