Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
monster210x65
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
DeFiant
UGFREAK-banner-PM
STADAPM
yms-GIF-210x65-SB
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
wuhan
dpharma
marathon
zzsttmy
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Dat's - CJC-1295 & GHRP-6 (Basic Guides)

Don't use CJC-1295 use modified GRF(1-29) and you won't need to worry about any potential pituitary problems as more fully described in my pituitary article.

Beyond the pituitary the potential problems are simply the same as those that would occur with synthetic GH, with perhaps less of a risk of prolactin fed carcinoma or other prolactin instigated/exacerbated problem. This "positive" aspect results from the 10% or so 20kDa GH. 20kDa GH is also responsible for lowering slighty the diabetogenic effect from straight 22kDA.

Nobody can insure your risks. Nor do I feel like explaining to you why mixing synthetic GH and GRF(1-29)/GHRP-6 may be less effective then running either one or the other.

Hi Dat, I have been reading your thread avidly for quite some time but guess I get a little confused sometimes with the 'science' and have likely missed some important changes. A few months ago we were discussing using CJC 1295 @ 100 mg and GHRP6 @ 200 mg nightly on a 5/2 split which you felt was a good and useful protocol. In addition 3 iu of GH post workout was also muted. Would it be best to leave out the GH altogether? I believe my CJC is the 'proper' stuff which I got from Aesthetic Labs. I'd better go read your thread on pituitary straight away. I've got a substantial quantity of CJC in the freezer so would like to use it if possible :)
 
I'm sorry I mistyped. I meant Humalog.

I don't really like humalog for the purpose of gaining muscle mass. Most people think insulin is insulin no matter how long it acts. But that is not exactly true.

Insulin analogs have different characteristics because changing the shape of the molecule by changing amino acids can effect the degree to which it not only binds with its native insulin receptor but also determine if and to what degree it will bind to the IGF-1 receptor.

In addition at times the insulin ligand can also activate an intracellular pathway normally activated by IGF-1 WITHOUT actually binding to that receptor.
Humulin-Regular is as close as you can get to native insulin. While Humalog is an analog designed for speed of action.

Here is a quote from a journal article Novel insulin analogues and its mitogenic potential, Ivana Zib and Philip Raskin, Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism, 8, 2006, 611–620 that will help us understand a little bit:

The effect of insulin on cells has been traditionally divided into two categories: metabolic and mitogenic. While the metabolic effects of insulin such as glucose transport and glycogen synthesis are mainly mediated through the insulin receptor, the mechanism of insulin’s mitogenic effect is not clear. It is thought that the mitogenic effect of insulin is mediated through insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) receptor stimulation and, unlike the metabolic effects, requires long-term insulin exposure.

It has been shown that overexpression of IGF-1 receptor causes mitogenic and neoplastic transformation in multiple cell lines, and elevated IGF-1 levels can cause progression of diabetic retinopathy. Therapy with IGF-1 induces proliferation in human breast cancer cells in vivo and in vitro. On the other hand, insulin receptor stimulation has also shown a ligand-induced mitogenic effect on cultured human breast cancer cells.

Because changing the structure of the insulin molecule may significantly alter both its metabolic and mitogenic activity, major concerns were raised about the safety of the insulin analogues.

Now this journal article addressed the safety aspects of several analogs being investigated which is not of concern to us. I say this because the quote is taken out of context and does not speak directly to Humulin-R nor Humalog. Rather I wanted to underscore that the sustained presence of insulin has mitogenic effects because of its engagement of the IGF-1 receptor (and pathways).

Mitogenic effects in muscle are good if you are trying to build mass. Obviously mitogenesis is not desirable in cancer cells.

This is one of the reasons why I prefer low to moderate elevations in insulin for prolonged periods of time WHEN I am in a highly anabolic state. I don't want fast acting insulin nor do I want huge insulin spikes at these times.

At other times this [long periods of elevated insulin levels] is not desirable and in fact can hinder what you are trying to accomplish.

I suppose that Humalog could be made to behave more like Humulin-R if you were to administer a second dose at the time when the first begins to wear off. If someone were to do this they really need to pay attention to their blood glucose by monitoring it through a glucose meter and be aware of the peaks and make sure to have the food in their system to meet those peaks.

Humulin-R in my opinion is much easier to manage.

Dat
After going back over this topic notice the part i high lighted in red does this mean Humalog will hinder or cause issues with admin GH or IGF ?

Currently only have Humalog and no access to Humulin-R so deciding if i'm best using what i have (Humalog) or dropping insulin altogether for now ?

PB
 
Dat
Quick question

Have searched but can't find details on it but know you said if using GHRP/slin then to split intake by 30mins to let GH rise.

I'm using just GH/insulin dosed AM now I can shoot these both at the same time can't I ?

Also do i need to leave any amount of time before I eat breakfast as i know some say you must wait 30mins after GH before eating ?

Cheer bro

PB

I would think it would be good to split the intake of GHRP/slin by 30 min to let the GH rise. I was thinking that insulin blunted the GH release of GHRPs?

Correct me if i'm wrong.
 
pitbulladams said:
...Have searched but can't find details on it but know you said if using GHRP/slin then to split intake by 30mins to let GH rise.

I'm using just GH/insulin dosed AM now I can shoot these both at the same time can't I ?

Yes.

pitbulladams said:
Also do i need to leave any amount of time before I eat breakfast as i know some say you must wait 30mins after GH before eating ?

Nope. No time is needed.

weltweite said:
I would think it would be good to split the intake of GHRP/slin by 30 min to let the GH rise. I was thinking that insulin blunted the GH release of GHRPs?

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Kinda wrong...somewhat rightish :)

The reason to wait to take insulin 15min, 20min, 25min or 30mins after administering CJC-1295/mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP-6 is primarily because you will take in carbs at the same time as your insulin shot. Fats & carbs can inhibit GH release.

Now if you will be waiting 20 minutes or so after your insulin shot to take in food then by all means both the GHRHs/GHRPs & insulin can be taken together.

None of this timing comes in to play if you are using synthetic GH with your insulin.

I have read the bodybuilding forum writeups and I think the reason that those writeups advise taking GH and waiting 30 minutes is to allow for IGF-1 to be synthesized first and then insulin is added.

But this is just faulty reasoning. GH induces an elevation in circulating IGF-1 which will last 24 hours a day 7 days a week if GH is run in sufficient dose either everyday or every other day. In other words the growth hormone you take today will effect the IGF-1 level tommorrow.

GH is like a hand smacking a balloon which we can analogize as IGF-1. Every time you take GH it smacks IGF-1 levels which will float just like the balloon up even when the GH hand has been put in your pocket.

So when you take GH PWO, IGF-1 levels will already be elevated from previous administrations. There is no need to time things...there is no benefit to it.
 
Dat
After going back over this topic notice the part i high lighted in red does this mean Humalog will hinder or cause issues with admin GH or IGF ?

Currently only have Humalog and no access to Humulin-R so deciding if i'm best using what i have (Humalog) or dropping insulin altogether for now ?

PB

No...that phrase just meant that sometimes insulin can act as IGF-1 (or do what IGF-1 does) There is an overlap in function between IGF-1 & insulin. That's all.

No worries Pit. You are fine using Humalog.
 
dicko53 said:
Would it be best to leave out the GH altogether?

It is probably best to run one or the other. In other words all synthetic GH during a period of time and/or all mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP-6 during another period of time.

dicko53 said:
I'd better go read your thread on pituitary straight away. I've got a substantial quantity of CJC in the freezer so would like to use it if possible :)

My view though is that CJC-1295 at 2mg per week is probably not overtaxing of the pituitary. I used it for 6 months straight w/o apparent problem...although a sample of one is insufficient to draw any conclusion.

I feel the most confidence in stating that 2mgs per week of modified GRF(1-29) (dosed using the Dat protocol w/ GHRP-6) is not overtaxing the pituitary.

The peptides you have in your freezer are likely to be good but they may be modified GRF(1-29) instead of CJC-1295. So run them the way we discussed.
 
Sanctus Umbra said:
What is your opinion on PWO insulin?

That is one of the best times to use it.

Sanctus Umbra said:
Am I right into thinking it is not needed PWO since glucose absorption is not insulin dependent but is dependent on GLUT 4 transporters?And since exogenous insulin lowers blood glucose, during PWO don't we need carbs for the insulin spike?I see a contradiction here.

I think you have been reading to much supplement company "information". :)

I've started typing out a response 3 times so far...

...hmmmm. If you go outside and expose your naked back to the sun for a period of time each day you will increase your natural levels of testosterone by as much as 10%. But if you inject testosterone in an amount 10x the daily natural testosterone output...in other words 1000% above normal are you really concerned about losing or trying to get that 10% sun worshiping rise?

The same thing applies to injecting pharmacological amounts of insulin vs. sucking down some sugar to get an insulin spike.

Sanctus Umbra said:
Also is it true that after injecting GH, one should wait 1.5-2hrs before eating as ingesting carbs with GH is actually a bad idea?

There is no truth in your statement.

Sanctus Umbra said:
Thank you for your time and contribution.Much appreciated.

No problem. My pleasure.

Hi fourthgen. Is that the old Dat you remember?
 
Yes.



Nope. No time is needed.



Kinda wrong...somewhat rightish :)

The reason to wait to take insulin 15min, 20min, 25min or 30mins after administering CJC-1295/mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP-6 is primarily because you will take in carbs at the same time as your insulin shot. Fats & carbs can inhibit GH release.

Now if you will be waiting 20 minutes or so after your insulin shot to take in food then by all means both the GHRHs/GHRPs & insulin can be taken together.

None of this timing comes in to play if you are using synthetic GH with your insulin.

I have read the bodybuilding forum writeups and I think the reason that those writeups advise taking GH and waiting 30 minutes is to allow for IGF-1 to be synthesized first and then insulin is added.

But this is just faulty reasoning. GH induces an elevation in circulating IGF-1 which will last 24 hours a day 7 days a week if GH is run in sufficient dose either everyday or every other day. In other words the growth hormone you take today will effect the IGF-1 level tommorrow.

GH is like a hand smacking a balloon which we can analogize as IGF-1. Every time you take GH it smacks IGF-1 levels which will float just like the balloon up even when the GH hand has been put in your pocket.

So when you take GH PWO, IGF-1 levels will already be elevated from previous administrations. There is no need to time things...there is no benefit to it.

So then Dat its cool to pin the slin IM if you do the GH IM?
 
It is probably best to run one or the other. In other words all synthetic GH during a period of time and/or all mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP-6 during another period of time.



My view though is that CJC-1295 at 2mg per week is probably not overtaxing of the pituitary. I used it for 6 months straight w/o apparent problem...although a sample of one is insufficient to draw any conclusion.

I feel the most confidence in stating that 2mgs per week of modified GRF(1-29) (dosed using the Dat protocol w/ GHRP-6) is not overtaxing the pituitary.

The peptides you have in your freezer are likely to be good but they may be modified GRF(1-29) instead of CJC-1295. So run them the way we discussed.

So the protocol which I will be using, 500 mcg of CJC/GRF and 1 mg of GHRP6 weekly should not pose any problems. I will give it a go for 6 months and then go with the GH for 6 months to make a comparison.

Again many many thanks :)
 
Last edited:
Kinda wrong...somewhat rightish :)

The reason to wait to take insulin 15min, 20min, 25min or 30mins after administering CJC-1295/mod GRF(1-29)/GHRP-6 is primarily because you will take in carbs at the same time as your insulin shot. Fats & carbs can inhibit GH release.

Now if you will be waiting 20 minutes or so after your insulin shot to take in food then by all means both the GHRHs/GHRPs & insulin can be taken together.

None of this timing comes in to play if you are using synthetic GH with your insulin.

I have read the bodybuilding forum writeups and I think the reason that those writeups advise taking GH and waiting 30 minutes is to allow for IGF-1 to be synthesized first and then insulin is added.

But this is just faulty reasoning. GH induces an elevation in circulating IGF-1 which will last 24 hours a day 7 days a week if GH is run in sufficient dose either everyday or every other day. In other words the growth hormone you take today will effect the IGF-1 level tommorrow.

GH is like a hand smacking a balloon which we can analogize as IGF-1. Every time you take GH it smacks IGF-1 levels which will float just like the balloon up even when the GH hand has been put in your pocket.

So when you take GH PWO, IGF-1 levels will already be elevated from previous administrations. There is no need to time things...there is no benefit to it.

Thanks for clearing that up!
 
I saw a little bit of info on women and what a little GHRP-6 could do for them.

For instance my mother is 56, and I know she would benefit from a very little therapeutic dose just to get her GH levels back to when she was in her 20s

Any input from anyone on what a good little dosage of Ghrp-6 would be per night just to maintain healthy levels. I think that would be the best gift I could give her for xmas is somethign to help her maintain her youthfulness for the coming years.

Hell, I'm more interested in that for her, than in it for myself. Nothing would make me happier than seeing her healthier.

I know the GH pulse patterns are different for men and women.
 
Clarification for Fourthgen

GH administration

The thought occurred to me that I wasn't clear to you ALL the times you asked me how to run GH.

What you want to do is have GH active, then not active, then active, then not active, etc.

So what you do is you go to the GH comparison w/ CJC article I posted and look at the GH chart for the GH study. http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showpost.php?p=435287&postcount=6

Reproduced below:

GH - GH (color).jpg

What you see is that at a single 7.5 iu (for a 100kg man) administration the GH level in plasma rises and falls back to baseline at around the 12 hour mark.

At a single administration of 15iu (for a 100kg man) the GH level in plasma rises and then falls back to baseline around the 24 hour mark.

So dosing determines how you will run GH because you need on/off/on/off..periods. Continually elevated GH levels desensitize the intracellular pathways that GH triggers in the first place and they just turn off no matter how much GH is around.

So when I say EOD is better then ED I really am referring to higher dose of around 15iu

As you can see from the chart 8ius can be administered once one day and twice another day. The key is understanding that GH will be active for 12 hours. Then you need some time off...say around 4 hours (maybe less if there is high physiological/low pharmacological insulin around during the GH off time. Then you can administer 8ius of GH again.

That would mean the exact timing would shift each day.

First day: 8ius when you wake up (12 hours of active time + 4 hours of off time) you then dose 16 hours later before bed.

Second day: when you wake up GH has been active for 8 hours so you need to wait 4 more active hours + 4 hours of off time, which means you administer 8iu 8 hours after you wake up.

Third day: same as the first day​

Now what if you administer just 4ius? I don't have a chart but it probably will be active for 6 hours so you could get in two doses of 4iu twice a day (6 hours of active time + 4 hours of off time).

Maybe with just 2ius you dose 3 maybe even 4 times a day (if you can figure out how to do it when you wake to use the bathroom at night).

Now back to the chart above. IF you are dosing the two higher levels of 15iu a day or 30iu a day then you do need to take every other day off.

I hope this clarifies things a little bit. If not just ask.
 
GH administration

The thought occurred to me that I wasn't clear to you ALL the times you asked me how to run GH.

What you want to do is have GH active, then not active, then active, then not active, etc.

So what you do is you go to the GH comparison w/ CJC article I posted and look at the GH chart for the GH study. http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showpost.php?p=435287&postcount=6

Reproduced below:


What you see is that at a single 7.5 iu (for a 100kg man) administration the GH level in plasma rises and falls back to baseline at around the 12 hour mark.

At a single administration of 15iu (for a 100kg man) the GH level in plasma rises and then falls back to baseline around the 24 hour mark.

So dosing determines how you will run GH because you need on/off/on/off..periods. Continually elevated GH levels desensitize the intracellular pathways that GH triggers in the first place and they just turn off no matter how much GH is around.

So when I say EOD is better then ED I really am referring to higher dose of around 15iu

As you can see from the chart 8ius can be administered once one day and twice another day. The key is understanding that GH will be active for 12 hours. Then you need some time off...say around 4 hours (maybe less if there is high physiological/low pharmacological insulin around during the GH off time. Then you can administer 8ius of GH again.

That would mean the exact timing would shift each day.

First day: 8ius when you wake up (12 hours of active time + 4 hours of off time) you then dose 16 hours later before bed.

Second day: when you wake up GH has been active for 8 hours so you need to wait 4 more active hours + 4 hours of off time, which means you administer 8iu 8 hours after you wake up.

Third day: same as the first day​

Now what if you administer just 4ius? I don't have a chart but it probably will be active for 6 hours so you could get in two doses of 4iu twice a day (6 hours of active time + 4 hours of off time).

Maybe with just 2ius you dose 3 maybe even 4 times a day (if you can figure out how to do it when you wake to use the bathroom at night).

Now back to the chart above. IF you are dosing the two higher levels of 15iu a day or 30iu a day then you do need to take every other day off.

I hope this clarifies things a little bit. If not just ask.

Dat
I train and use GH on these day only first thing at 7.00am then train at 9.00am and i train mon/tue/thur/fri

Currently its

Mon: 8iu GH
Tue: 8iu GH
Wed: off
Thur: 8iu GH
Fri: 8iu GH
Sat: off
Sun: off

Hows best dosing on above ?

Also was thinking of upping to 16iu's each time how would that effect it, what would both layouts look like ?

Cheers Bro

PB
 
If you are say 40+ years of age having a youthful restoration of GH levels year around will help keep your core tighter if you have everything else in check.

?

I'm 47 and my doc just prescribed Testim 1%, two tubes =10grams/100mg test daily for a test level of 240. I'm beyond the point of wanting to be huge but have a hard time keeping fat off my middle. I had a 30 inch waist until I hit 30 and struggle to stay in 34s now and lately 36s with no change in habits. I've used AAS in the past at significant doses, 2+ grams a week, and believe it may be why my levels are low although my age may be a factor. My question is regarding GH vs CJC/GHRP-6. Would there be benefit from 2 iu HGH daily or 100mcg CJC/200mcg GHRP-6 at night before bed? How many days a week minimum for results to be worthwhile? I still weight train and do cardio on the treadmill 4 times a week. I eat what my wife puts on the table and don't eat like a pig portion wise. She's a great cook, watches her figure and makes fairly healthy meals. I'm looking for a long term solution as I'll probably be on HRT forever as many of my younger BB brothers will be when they hit my age. I appreciate any insight you can provide and thank you for your very informative posts.
 
Last edited:
Wow this is very interesting. So Dat, if I only plan on using around 20-21iu's per week, it seems as if i'd be better off doing daily smaller injections correct? Like maybe 3iu's everyday?

Dat, if you get some extra time, would you mind posting what protocol you would recommend for someone who is only gonna run around 20iu's per week? And maybe a protocol for 36iu's per week as well(if i can get more gh lol)
 
Last edited:
fourthgen said:
Wow this is very interesting. So Dat, if I only plan on using around 20-21iu's per week, it seems as if i'd be better off doing daily smaller injections correct? Like maybe 3iu's everyday?

You have to determine what you want to get out of GH first. Lately we have been discussing ways to try to increase muscle gain not fat loss.

Is the goal fat loss? Because if it is fat loss then you do not want to administer GH in the presence of insulin. Some people think that taking GH w/ insulin will do many things including increase fat loss. The combined administration may do many positive things but there will be no fat loss from the GH.

This also leads into dosages. Because GH is not cheap people need to administer it in a way that will maximize GHs ability to aid in the loss of fat.

One of the benefits of GH is that it will help preserve muscle some in a caloric deficit. So your diet and cardio will really be the key components in a fat loss protocol. GH will likely help some fatloss in the core region (especially if you are older) and aid overall loss but it is of benefit in preserving muscle.

fourthgen said:
Dat, if you get some extra time, would you mind posting what protocol you would recommend for someone who is only gonna run around 20iu's per week? And maybe a protocol for 36iu's per week as well(if i can get more gh lol)

Sure. When I check back in, in a few hours I'll have more time to post.
 
I'm still working my way through all the posts and page 8 post 145 you said;

Change the GHRP-6 dosing to 140mcgs and take it pre-bed every night of the week. Your sleep and night-time pulse will thank you.

In fact, especially older guys, but most of us could benefit from just taking 100mcg of GHRP-6 pre-bed each night.'

This may be exactly what i'm looking for. Just looking to get my levels close to what they were in my 20s. This looks like a very cheap way to get there.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your time brother. Yes the 20iu's per week is going to be for fatloss,but not extreme dieting. Later when I want to add mass im gonna shoot for 15iu's 3x per week with slin but as of now I can only afford 20-21iu's per week, so i'd love to know the best way to take it for fatloss. I also only lift 3x per week MWF and cardio on off days if that makes any diff in the protocol. Thanks again brother.

You have to determine what you want to get out of GH first. Lately we have been discussing ways to try to increase muscle gain not fat loss.

Is the goal fat loss? Because if it is fat loss then you do not want to administer GH in the presence of insulin. Some people think that taking GH w/ insulin will do many things including increase fat loss. The combined administration may do many positive things but there will be no fat loss from the GH.

This also leads into dosages. Because GH is not cheap people need to administer it in a way that will maximize GHs ability to aid in the loss of fat.

One of the benefits of GH is that it will help preserve muscle some in a caloric deficit. So your diet and cardio will really be the key components in a fat loss protocol. GH will likely help some fatloss in the core region (especially if you are older) and aid overall loss but it is of benefit in preserving muscle.



Sure. When I check back in, in a few hours I'll have more time to post.
 
Creating a backbone around which to lose fat​

Glucose is an indispensable metabolic fuel for the brain. For the reason that the brain is unable to synthesize glucose or store more than a few minutes supply as glycogen, it is critically dependent on a continuous supply of glucose from the circulation. "At normal (or elevated) arterial glucose concentrations, the rate of blood-to-brain glucose transport exceeds the rate of brain glucose metabolism. However, as arterial glucose levels fall below the physiological range, blood-to-brain glucose transport becomes limiting to brain glucose metabolism, and ultimately survival." - Hypoglycemia in Diabetes, Philip E. Cryer, Diabetes Care 26:1902-1912, 2003

So what happens at various blood glucose levels?

For practical purposes we can say that the body desires to maintain a stable glucose level in blood plasma of around 90 ng/dL. Blood glucose levels above that threshold are viewed as excess energy and this engenders a storage response via the pancreatic secretion of insulin. The hormone insulin removes glucose from blood plasma until levels return to 90ng/dL at which point insulin ceases to be active.

Below that insulin triggering blood glucose threshold of 90ng/dL, down to about 70ng/dL, there is insufficient circulating energy and therefore the hormone glucagon is released to catabolize stored energy and make it available to the brain and body. Physical activity or energy demanding activity without the presence of circulating glucose or concurrent intake of food requires stored energy. Activity is the catalyst that drives the blood glucose level below 90ng/dL.

Below 70ng/dL of glucose in blood plasma the body becomes concerned and because the brain is a critical organ and needs glucose, this threshold is considered critical. The hormone epinephrine (adrenaline) is released at this stage in order to trigger a quick release of stored energy to get blood glucose levels back to normal.

The body when it is in this emergency state will burn anything for fuel and muscle can be catabolized. It is best to avoid this state.

When you diet you can not lose fat in the presence of the hormone insulin. You want to have the hormone glucagon active and this requires that your blood glucose levels be between 70ng/dL and 90ng/dL. Glucagon acts to free up stored energy by signaling the adipocytes to activate Hormone-sensitive lipase which converts triglycerides into free fatty acids.

Hormone-sensitive lipase is a vital component of fat mobilization and is a positively active force in the presence of glucagon and inhibited in the presence of insulin.

Fatty acids have very low solubility in the blood however serum albumin, binds free fatty acids, and thereby increases their effective solubility by a factor of about 1000. Serum albumin transports fatty acids to organs such as muscle and liver for oxidation and this happens when blood sugar is low.

So what is the minimal amount of glucose needed to trigger insulin & why again is insulin bad?

From the textbook Biochemical and Physiological Aspects of Human Nutrition, Stipanuk et al. ed. 2000

Insulin ...is secreted in response to changes in circulating glucose; a change of as little as 2mg/100ml of plasma can be detected by the pancreas. Insulin release can also be stimulated in response to certain amino acids in the circulation. Other important signals for insulin secretion include gut hormones and nervous stimulation. - p395

In adipose tissue insulin increases fatty acid uptake and triacylglycerol storage via increases in lipoprotein lipase activity, and at the same time decreases lipolysis by decreasing hormone-sensitive lipase activity. The latter may be one of insulin's strongest actions because it occurs at very low insulin levels and effectively lowers the levels of free fatty acids in the circulation thereby decreasing there utilization as fuel. - p396

Is there way to minimize glucose's influence?

Again from the textbook Biochemical and Physiological Aspects of Human Nutrition, Stipanuk et al. ed. 2000

Soluable viscous polysaccharides [certain fibers] can delay and even interfere with the absorption of nutrients...

Positive benefits of delayed nutrient absorption include an improvement of glucose tolerance and a lowering of serum cholesterol levels. Delayed absorption of carbohydrates results in a lower postprandial (following a meal) glucose level. In general the more viscous the fiber the greater the effect on blood glucose. This is similar to the effect seen with eating several small meals rather than one large meal. When glucose is absorbed in small amounts over an extended period, such as seen with viscous fibers, the insulin response is attenuated (Pick, et al. (1996) Oat bran concentrate bread products improve long term control of diabetes: A pilot study J. Am Diet Assoc 96:1254-1261)
...
Viscosity of the polysaccharides and their ability to form gels in the stomach appear to slow gastric emptying. This in turn results in a more uniform presentation of the meal to the small intestine for absorption. [Poorly soluble fibers that do not form gels such as wheat and cellulose have little effect...unlike those that do which include guar gum, pectin, psyllium, oat bran.] - p146. 147​

A Practical Experiment

For two days I used my glucose monitor to check my blood glucose after ingestion of coffee.

  • Black coffee w/ no additives = zero rise in glucose
  • Black coffee w/ Stevia = a 2 point rise in glucose
  • Black coffee w/ Splenda = a 5 - 8 point rise in glucose.
  • Coffee w/ Splenda & generic Coffee Mate creamer = 15+ point rise in glucose
  • Coffee w/ Splenda & 2% Lactose free Milk = 17+ point rise in glucose

So for me the caffeine in a cup of coffee does not effect blood glucose BUT the additives sure as heck do!

How do you reduce the rise in blood glucose w/ these additives (besides the obvious)? ....add FIBER.

So ingesting 2 grams of Psyllium Husk powder just prior to drinking Coffee w/ Splenda & Coffee Mate creamer resulted in only a 4 point rise in blood glucose. WOW!

So how does Growth Hormone fit in to all of this?

First recognize that there will be periods of time post meal where blood glucose and thus insulin will be elevated. There is no fat loss during this time and Growth Hormone will not be effective during these periods.

With this recognition it makes sense to reduce the amplitude and area under the curve (in graph-type language) of insulin spikes. Meals should be constructed with both the glycemic index of foods in mind and the total glycemic load of the meal. Fiber should be used to reduce blood glucose levels.

With this recognition it makes sense to maximize the time period when glucagon is active. That requires insulin to return to baseline quickly after a meal and a sufficient period of time between meals to allow glucagon to have an effective impact. Activity between meals as well as the presence of GH will have positive impacts on fat loss.

The reason it is necessary to write about everything in this post is so that you understand how easy it is to waste Growth Hormones fat loss potential and what one must do to maximize GH's fat loss power.

Too often someone will use GH and admit that their diet wasn't very good. That negates much of GH's positive impact on fat loss.

I also wanted to put GH into a proper context which sadly is often lacking in people who hope for better body attainment. The things I have barely touched on are of utmost importance and make up the backbone of a sound fat loss protocol.

GH can be a very useful adjunct to a properly constructed protocol which focuses on food intake with proper hormonal impact and sustained activity level.

Use of GH

From other posts we understand that GH has a dual role to play in a diet. It can increase the rate of fat loss and it can help inhibit the breakdown of muscle. So you want to administer GH in smaller amounts, you want to have off periods (i.e. time when GH is not active) so that the intracellular pathways can reset and you want to maximize the frequency of administration.

So we need to understand the impact of GH dose on levels of GH in plasma to set a schedule. We can extrapolate from the chart from the GH study posted above. Assuming a linear relationship (since 7.5ius were active for 12 hours & 15ius for 24 hours) we can assume that a dose of 2ius of synthetic GH administration will elevate GH in plasma for 3.2 hours.

If we need about 4 hours off (we can probably round down to 3.8 hours) we can dose 2ius of GH every 7 hours. For ease of fitting a dosing schedule into our lives we can round up to 8 hours and say that we can dose 2ius three times a day spaced out by 7-8 hours.

Since GH isn't effective for fat loss in the presence of insulin we probably want the meals that have the biggest impact on blood glucose and thus insulin to be ingested during the time GH is not active. After that meal is digested and insulin rises and then falls back to 90ng/dL we can administer GH and be confident it will have a positive impact on our overall fat loss protocol.
 

Staff online

  • pesty4077
    Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub
  • rAJJIN
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member

Forum statistics

Total page views
574,569,035
Threads
138,166
Messages
2,850,658
Members
161,342
Latest member
Jungleyoung
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
yourdailyvitamins
Prowrist straps store banner
yourrawmaterials
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yms-GIF-210x131-Banne-B
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
SHARKY-GEAR-R1-06
3
thc
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top