No it is a terrible index. Here is a good index: **broken link removed**
As you can see High GI is above 55. Banana is a high GI food as is white milk. Even if a milk product is low GI it has a big impact on insulin. See the footnote (and reference my coffee additive experiment ...i.e. real milk had the biggest impact on glucose).
Low GI is 35 or below.
Here are acceptable carbs (banish everything else) [From the source linked above]:
Darn, i guess i'll stick with peaches and ezeikal bread and maybe switch to almond milk for breakfast carbs then. So Dat im still a bit confused about the nighttime GH. I'd like to not interfer with my natty levels at night, b/c if I do my session's during the day, wont I be getting even more total Gh if my natty production kicks in at night or will it still be hindered if using Gh in the day. I wonder if its even worth doing at night. Thank you.
Also most whey proteins have leucine in it and doesnt leucine really raise insulin high? Would a scoop or 2 have enough in it to cause a serious effect or is it more of a problem when taking just high doses of amino acids or pure leucine in high doses.
Darn, i guess i'll stick with peaches and ezeikal bread and maybe switch to almond milk for breakfast carbs then. So Dat im still a bit confused about the nighttime GH. I'd like to not interfer with my natty levels at night, b/c if I do my session's during the day, wont I be getting even more total Gh if my natty production kicks in at night or will it still be hindered if using Gh in the day. I wonder if its even worth doing at night. Thank you.
Well since your doses are so low it might be better if you got them in during the day and let whatever GH your body feels like secreting happen. Your choice.
Just to be complete I should add that higher doses of GH (higher 4thgen is using) though will probably inhibit natural GH for the night.
Also most whey proteins have leucine in it and doesnt leucine really raise insulin high? Would a scoop or 2 have enough in it to cause a serious effect or is it more of a problem when taking just high doses of amino acids or pure leucine in high doses.
Whey protein digests fast and that speed will also contribute to spiking insulin. I never use it. I prefer whole foods. Casein shake every once in a while.
Shoot didnt know that about whey. Im gonna have to totally revise all my food plans or just add a shitload of fiber with the meal and some vanadyl, ala, chromium picolinate,biotin,etc.... Any recommendations of a good product with multiple ingrediants to lower insulin?
Also, i thought of a good time to maybe take a dose. I usually go to bed around 2-3am and get up around 11-12, but usually around 6 or 7am I get up to piss. Maybe have shot by bed, pin it and go back to sleep? That way I already got my big natty GH pulse when I was in my deep sleep.
Shoot didnt know that about whey. Im gonna have to totally revise all my food plans or just add a shitload of fiber with the meal and some vanadyl, ala, chromium picolinate,biotin,etc.... Any recommendations of a good product with multiple ingrediants to lower insulin?
Also, i thought of a good time to maybe take a dose. I usually go to bed around 2-3am and get up around 11-12, but usually around 6 or 7am I get up to piss.
Tripdog on the AM board does that. He doesn't use GH but various GH releasers like Arginine, pGH, GHRP-6. He has been taking a shot when he wakes up to urinate for at least the last 6 months.
Now tomorrow impress your wife by using the new word you learned today...at the appropriate time and in the proper context of course.
Urinate is proper. Piss is vulgar. In this thread we say "I get up to urinate." The lessons never stop do they.
Tripdog on the AM board does that. He doesn't use GH but various GH releasers like Arginine, pGH, GHRP-6. He has been taking a shot when he wakes up to urinate for at least the last 6 months.
Now tomorrow impress your wife by using the new word you learned today...at the appropriate time and in the proper context of course.
Dammit, i mean darnit. So do you think when getting up early morning to URINATE is a good time for a shot? That way the big natty GH pulse still occurs.
The fineness of the powder will matter. Course powder doesn't do as good a job as finely ground powder.
There is no exact way to know the impact it will make unless you do blood glucose readings for the same meal both with and without the fiber.
I will say that taking in the fiber first before the rest of the meal has a bigger impact then taking it later in the meal.
This is also true for fiber such as salad and raw veggies. I once did blood glucose readings after a meal of a sandwich, big cookie and then salad.
I then repeated the experiment with the salad first followed by sandwich then the big cookie. The insulin spike had a lower amplitude and didn't last as long when the salad was ingested first.
By-the-way I know many say that fats slow digestion and lower glucose at a meal but I have found that not to be true. Fats do not act the way fiber does and have a minimal impact in lowering the the volume of blood glucose from ingested carbohydrates.
I would start with a spoonful or two and see how that works.
1.) If Gh is taken early morning after unriating, would a males biggest Gh pulse have already occured since it occurs a few hours into deep sleep, and therefor you'll be getting the best of both worlds?
2.) Would 1.5iu's 2x per day 7days per week be better or 2iu's 2x per day 6days per week be better if goal is dieting?
3.) Other than ala,vanadyl and fiber, are there any other supps you recommend that are even worth taking to control insulin?
Dat
Whats your view on Cardio and insulin use, i have always done some cardio (steep incline walk on threadmill) mon>sat on training days its 20mins PWO on non-training days it 40mins a hour and half after breakfast.
Now as i'm using insulin with breakfast on my training days it is still active will doing my cardio (3 hours after taking) i'm not concerned about low BG as i take a BCAA/WMS drink during training but more concerned as the the effects on fat loss ?
On non-training days i don't use insulin so theres no issue there.
I have tried a bunch of GDA supps and have found (IMO) that Corosolic Acid (contained in Banaba Leaf aka Lagerstoemia Speciosa) is by far the best of any products alone and works great in the stack I take. If you try it make sure you get at least 1% Banaba which is common for 3mg of CA (300mg banaba). I usually take 900mg of 1% Banaba (9mg Corosolic Acid) to have a decent effect. I have knocked off about 20-30 points (average) 15min after my PWO shake if I take it 30min before the shake. I do get much better results with higher dosages or when combined with na-rala, VS, Gymnema Sylvestre, and Bitter Melon...
There are numerous studies on CA and its plasma glucose lowering effects. Here are a couple of abstracts:
Effect of corosolic acid on postchallenge plasma glucose levels .
Diabetes Research and Clinical Practice , Volume 73 , Issue 2 , Pages 174 - 177
M . Fukushima , F . Matsuyama , N . Ueda , K . Egawa , J . Takemoto , Y . Kajimoto , N . Yonaha , T . Miura , T . Kaneko , Y . Nishi
Abstract
Corosolic acid (CRA) is a substance extracted from Lagerstroemia speciosa L. and has been reported to have biological activities in in vitro and experimental animal studies. In this study, 31 subjects were orally administered 10mg CRA or a placebo, on different occasions, in a capsule 5min before the 75-g oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) in a double-blind and cross-over design. Nineteen subjects had diabetes, seven had impaired glucose tolerance, one had impaired fasting glucose, and four had normal glucose tolerance according to the 1998 WHO criteria. There were no significant differences in plasma glucose levels before and 30min after the administration. CRA treatment subjects showed lower glucose levels from 60min until 120min and reached statistical significance at 90min. In this study, we have shown for the first time that CRA has a lowering effect on postchallenge plasma glucose levels in vivo in humans.
Antidiabetic activity of a standardized extract (Glucosol) from Lagerstroemia speciosa leaves in Type II diabetics. A dose-dependence study.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Jul;87(1):115-7.
Judy WV, Hari SP, Stogsdill WW, Judy JS, Naguib YM, Passwater R.
SIBR, Inc., 4112 20th Street West, Bradenton, FL
The antidiabetic activity of an extract from the leaves of Lagerstroemia speciosa standardized to 1% corosolic acid (Glucosol) has been demonstrated in a randomized clinical trial involving Type II diabetics. Subjects received a daily oral dose of Glucosol and blood glucose levels were measured. Glucosol at daily dosages of 32 and 48mg for 2 weeks showed a significant reduction in the blood glucose levels. Glucosol in a soft gel capsule formulation showed a 30% decrease in blood glucose levels compared to a 20% drop seen with dry-powder filled hard gelatin capsule formulation suggesting that the soft gel formulation has a better bioavailability than a dry-powder formulation.
Corosolic acid induces GLUT4 translocation in genetically type 2 diabetic mice.
Biol Pharm Bull. 2004 Jul;27(7):1103-5.
Department of Clinical Nutrition, Suzuka University Medical Science, Mie, Japan.
The effect of corosolic acid on blood glucose was studied in KK-Ay mice, an animal model of type 2 diabetes. Corosolic acid (10 mg/kg) reduced the blood glucose (p<0.05) of KK-Ay mice 4 h after single oral administration when compared with the control group. However, corosolic acid did not change the plasma insulin. The muscle facilitative glucose transporter isoform 4 (GLUT4) translocation from low-density microsomal membrane to plasma membrane was significantly increased in the orally Corosolic acid -treated mice when compared with that of the controls. These results suggest that the hypoglycemic effect of corosolic acid is derived, at least in part, from an increase in GLUT4 translocation in muscle. Therefore, it may be that corosolic acid has beneficial effects on hyperglycemia in type 2 diabetes.
- Glucagon doesn't affect fat release per se, it affects liver glycogen release.
- basal insulin levels will inhibit lipolysis, yes, yet BBs have lost fat successfully for years with carb-based/low-fat diets. There are numerous other key players involved in lipolysis that trumps insulin.
- GI is worthless. Not only will the GI of a carb source be hugely affected by proteins and fats in the meal, but also density, gastric motility and a host of other factors. Not to mention that low GI says nothing about insulin response and how it affects blood sugar short term vs. long term:
**broken link removed**
The basic tenets of fat loss are pretty much accurate as advised here, just wanted to point out a couple of inaccuracies.
GI is worthless. Not only will the GI of a carb source be hugely affected by proteins and fats in the meal, but also density, gastric motility and a host of other factors. Not to mention that low GI says nothing about insulin response and how it affects blood sugar short term vs. long term:
You're right thats what I did. I posted GIs and suggested people blindly follow them.
I didn't once mention the use of fiber or how the Glycemic Load of a meal was important. I didn't ever discuss taking out a blood glucose monitor and monitoring how a meal effects both the amplitude and duration of blood glucose levels post-meal.
"GI is worthless." - That is a ridiculously overboard statement.
"the GI of a carb source be hugely affected by proteins and fats in the meal, but also density, gastric motility and a host of other factors." - Bravo.
Blade_HST said:
The basic tenets of fat loss are pretty much accurate as advised here, just wanted to point out a couple of inaccuracies.
There are certain topics that just seem to draw the "I'm more knowledgeable then you crowd".
I guess this is one of them. What will happen if I type "fish oil"?
"basal insulin levels will inhibit lipolysis, yes, yet BBs have lost fat successfully for years with carb-based/low-fat diets. There are numerous other key players involved in lipolysis that trumps insulin."
- I'm sorry Blade I'm sure you are a nice guy and all of that but honestly I just don't care. Nothing in what little I posted could possibly be construed as covering the topic of dieting and fat loss in any detail what-so-ever.
"Glucagon doesn't affect fat release per se, it affects liver glycogen release."
You're right I f@cked up. Let me rectify that:
The liver plays a major role in glucose homeostasis in the organism (see p. 310). If glucose deficiency arises, the liver releases glucose into the blood, and when blood sugar levels are high, it takes glucose up from the blood and converts it into different metabolites. Several hormones from both groups are involved in controlling these processes. A very simplified version of the way in which they work is presented here. Glycogen is the form in which glucose is stored in the liver and muscles. The rate of glycogen synthesis is determined by glycogen synthase (bottom right), while its breakdown is catalyzed by glycogen phosphorylase (bottom left).
Regulation by interconversion (see image). If the blood glucose level falls, the peptide hormone glucagon is released. This activates glycogen breakdown, releasing glucose, and at the same time inhibits glycogen synthesis. Glucagon binds to receptors in the plasma membrane (bottom left) and, with mediation by a G-protein (see p. 386), activates the enzyme adenylate cyclase, which forms the second messenger 3,5'-cyclo-AMP (cAMP) from ATP. cAMP binds to another enzyme, protein kinase A (PK-A), and activates it. PK-A has several points of attack. Through phosphorylation, it converts the active form of glycogen synthase into the inactive form, thereby terminating the synthesis of glycogen. Secondly, it activates another protein kinase (not shown), which ultimately converts the inactive form of glycogen phosphorylase into the active form through phosphorylation. The active phosphorylase releases glucose 1-phosphate from glycogen, which after conversion into glucose 6-phosphate supplies free glucose. In addition, via an inhibitor (I) of protein phosphatase (PP), active PK-A inhibits inactivation of glycogenphosphorylase.When the cAMP level falls again, phosphoprotein phosphatases become active, which dephosphorylate the various phosphoproteins in the cascade described, and thereby arrest glycogen breakdown and re-start glycogen synthesis. Activation and inactivation of proteins through phosphorylation or dephosphorylation is referred to as interconversion.
In contrast to glucagon, the peptide hormone insulin (see p. 76) increases glycogen synthesis and inhibits glycogen breakdown. Via several intermediates, it inhibits protein kinase GSK-3 (bottom right; for details, see p. 388) and thereby prevents inactivation of glycogen synthase. In addition, insulin reduces the cAMP level by activating cAMP phosphodiesterase (PDE).
Don't quote me on that though because I just wrote that from memory and quickly drew up the image...or maybe I got it from Color Atlas of Biochemistry, Second edition, Jan Koolman, Thieme 2005
I was hoping Bobaslaw would discuss this topic because he has spent a lot of time on it and has experimented greatly with a blood glucose monitor.
If I'm 1st generation GDA (thanks to Duchaine) Bob is 2nd generation glucose disposal, which means he has advanced the art considerably...and the cool thing is I get to sit down and learn from him.
So pay attention to this post because there is deep knowledge in it. I'm actually taking notes because I'll apply some of this to my next diet.
I have tried a bunch of GDA supps and have found (IMO) that Corosolic Acid (contained in Banaba Leaf aka Lagerstoemia Speciosa) is by far the best of any products alone and works great in the stack I take. If you try it make sure you get at least 1% Banaba which is common for 3mg of CA (300mg banaba). I usually take 900mg of 1% Banaba (9mg Corosolic Acid) to have a decent effect. I have knocked off about 20-30 points (average) 15min after my PWO shake if I take it 30min before the shake. I do get much better results with higher dosages or when combined with na-rala, VS, Gymnema Sylvestre, and Bitter Melon...
There are numerous studies on CA and its plasma glucose lowering effects. Here are a couple of abstracts:
1.) If Gh is taken early morning after unriating, would a males biggest Gh pulse have already occured since it occurs a few hours into deep sleep, and therefor you'll be getting the best of both worlds?
The majority of night-time GH release occurs in the first few hours of sleep (during Slow Wave Sleep - for more detail on exact stages see a previous post made specifically on SWS & GH release).
So yes taking GH at that time will work well. You could even take it when you wake but right before you urinate OR right after you urinate but before you wash your hands...BUT maybe the best way is after you urinate & after you wash your hands.
fourthgen said:
2.) Would 1.5iu's 2x per day 7days per week be better or 2iu's 2x per day 6days per week be better if goal is dieting?
Dat
Whats your view on Cardio and insulin use, i have always done some cardio (steep incline walk on threadmill) mon>sat on training days its 20mins PWO on non-training days it 40mins a hour and half after breakfast.
Now as i'm using insulin with breakfast on my training days it is still active will doing my cardio (3 hours after taking) i'm not concerned about low BG as i take a BCAA/WMS drink during training but more concerned as the the effects on fat loss ?
In that scenario then you are using a more intense form of cardio with the desire to speed metabolism for the remainder of the day. This really was popularized by Layne Norton I guess...
...so that is what you will get out of that cardio session for the day...speedier metabolism (I assume).
LOL I always reread my posts to make sure you wont have some witty come back but didnt even fathom you'd think about the hand washing part. lol thanks for all your help. I also presume for fatloss pinning GH can be done IM or Subq as it doesnt make a big diff? I mean, IM it will get into your bloodstream faster but I would think thats more of a concern if your using slin with it and using a bulking protocol and having carbs with the shot.
The majority of night-time GH release occurs in the first few hours of sleep (during Slow Wave Sleep - for more detail on exact stages see a previous post made specifically on SWS & GH release).
So yes taking GH at that time will work well. You could even take it when you wake but right before you urinate OR right after you urinate but before you wash your hands...BUT maybe the best way is after you urinate & after you wash your hands.
I like the 6 day approach better. On the 7th day you could take a little stand-alone GHRP-6 or nothing.
...I also presume for fatloss pinning GH can be done IM or Subq as it doesnt make a big diff? I mean, IM it will get into your bloodstream faster but I would think thats more of a concern if your using slin with it and using a bulking protocol and having carbs with the shot.
See thats where my own personal experience tells me it doesn't matter. I have done both with insulin and measured my drop in blood glucose at 5 minute intervals. There was no difference.
So choose which ever way you want.
IM will blunt the needle more so if you use it for more than one drawing/pinning that may be important. Some people really are attracted to the IM stud[ies] that show IM is "better" so if that is you then cool.
On the other hand subcutaneous is more comfortable and my opinion and some studies think it doesn't much matter.
In that scenario then you are using a more intense form of cardio with the desire to speed metabolism for the remainder of the day. This really was popularized by Layne Norton I guess...
...so that is what you will get out of that cardio session for the day...speedier metabolism (I assume).
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