Dat my brother I got a ? for yah. Lately i've been doing 4iu's gh(split in 2 doses) 6days per week. This time around i've also added 100mcg GHRP6 before bed and I like it. I figured such a small amount wouldnt do much but I feel like im getting better results than i normally would off just the GH. Anyway my ? is, i run GH year round, is it ok to run a small dose of ghrp6(100mcg) before bed year round as well? Will i ever need a break or can it stress the pituitary or possibly interfer with natty gh production at night if I stay on too long?
Dat my brother I got a ? for yah. Lately i've been doing 4iu's gh(split in 2 doses) 6days per week. This time around i've also added 100mcg GHRP6 before bed and I like it. I figured such a small amount wouldnt do much but I feel like im getting better results than i normally would off just the GH. Anyway my ? is, i run GH year round, is it ok to run a small dose of ghrp6(100mcg) before bed year round as well? Will i ever need a break or can it stress the pituitary or possibly interfer with natty gh production at night if I stay on too long?
First I believe that what you are doing is optimal. Specifically adding the 100mcg of GHRP-6 pre-bed will support a better night time release.
You could do a number of things pre-bed such as the synergistic combo of GHRP-6/CJC or mod GRF(1-29).
GHRPs alone will work as well.
You can stay on GHRP-6 at saturation dose (i.e. 100mcg) say 3x per day forever. Higher doses could cause some desensitization. But there is no GHRP-6 pituitary problem (as far as I can see and I have really bored myself to death reading literature over potential pituitary problems and given up at least two "sure thing evenings" with a hottie and quite a few "maybe it will happen" evenings and some "listen to her blah, blah, blah with no hope of anything evenings" just to conclude that high dose CJC-1295 is the only release pattern that could present problems) .
To the contrary the GHRP-6 will enhance GH release and when you stop stop your system will be "fine tuned" such that some of the benefit will last for a few weeks before returning to previous patterns.
I have used GHRP-6 every night for the last 11 months (9 of those months w/ either CJC or mod GRF(1-29). Subjectively it is still equally effective and has presented no problems. Sample of 1 ...so take that for what it is worth.
Cool looks like 100mcg of GHRP6 pre bed will now be a forever thing I guess now the only ? is kinda the same with the generic blues. Sure they can be safe to run forever at resonable doses, but do we really know what additives and fillers are added to them? Possible contamination or metals, even in very small amounts that over time could cause problems?
First I believe that what you are doing is optimal. Specifically adding the 100mcg of GHRP-6 pre-bed will support a better night time release.
You could do a number of things pre-bed such as the synergistic combo of GHRP-6/CJC or mod GRF(1-29).
GHRPs alone will work as well.
You can stay on GHRP-6 at saturation dose (i.e. 100mcg) say 3x per day forever. Higher doses could cause some desensitization. But there is no GHRP-6 pituitary problem (as far as I can see and I have really bored myself to death reading literature over potential pituitary problems and given up at least two "sure thing evenings" with a hottie and quite a few "maybe it will happen" evenings and some "listen to her blah, blah, blah with no hope of anything evenings" just to conclude that high dose CJC-1295 is the only release pattern that could present problems) .
To the contrary the GHRP-6 will enhance GH release and when you stop stop your system will be "fine tuned" such that some of the benefit will last for a few weeks before returning to previous patterns.
I have used GHRP-6 every night for the last 11 months (9 of those months w/ either CJC or mod GRF(1-29). Subjectively it is still equally effective and has presented no problems. Sample of 1 ...so take that for what it is worth.
The problem as occurred in one person when they administer MTII in the same shot as CJC/GHRP-6 and in the other when they are injected back to back within seconds in the same spot.
The problem appears to be not be present when there is any significant time difference between administrations. So you should be fine.
I guess now the only ? is kinda the same with the generic blues. Sure they can be safe to run forever at resonable doses, but do we really know what additives and fillers are added to them? Possible contamination or metals, even in very small amounts that over time could cause problems?
Growth Hormone is made via a different, more complex process with a higher "theoretical" possibility of contamination then the more straight forward solid state manufacture of the GHRPs and GHRH.
Recombinant human growth hormone is produced in genetically modified Escherichia coli. Escherichia coli is grown and fermented in a complex medium that includes glucose. Eventually an additive is introduced when a given concentration of Escherichia coli is reached which stops growth and begins the process of all the Escherichia coli producing the 191 amino acid sequence for growth hormone. Eventually the Escherichia coli is harvested and the 191 amino acid chains extracted. The extraction process basically breaks up the Escherichia coli and a centrifuge seperates the 191 amino acid chain by eliminating lesser weight particles. It is this raw batch that is then purified using primarily HPLC technology.
So you really want the elimination of all Escherichia coli particles in the purification process which takes time. Pharmaceutical growth hormone is made under conditions that take the time & have the means to purify large batches properly. Laboratories may not.
Contrast this with the solid state process which uses a peptide synthesizer which basically caps one end of an amino acid, introduces the next amino acid, removes the cap so the two can bond properly and the process is repeated until the chain is complete.
The impurities in this process are generally incomplete or incorrectly bonded amino acid chains. It is easier to filter these out via HPLC then the e. coli particles in the other process.
If however they (amino acid partials) aren't all filtered out, as long as the reagent & solvent chemicals are washed out, there is not a serious problem of potential sickness... because amino acid partials are not toxic.
There are a great many people who have been injecting GHRH in some form or fashion that was only 80% pure. This did not make anyone sick.
However with growth hormone small amounts of impurity (or e. coli particles) can cause immediate welts, redness and sickness in the short term and maybe more long-term consequences.
Cool looks like 100mcg of GHRP6 pre bed will now be a forever thing I guess now the only ? is kinda the same with the generic blues. Sure they can be safe to run forever at resonable doses, but do we really know what additives and fillers are added to them? Possible contamination or metals, even in very small amounts that over time could cause problems?
Go see SWALE (Dr. John). He is the only Dr. I know of that is prescribing these protocols, including GHRH and GHRP's, and your guaranteed pharmaceutical grade quality. No research chems there. That's what I plan on doing sometime in the near future.
Go see SWALE (Dr. John). He is the only Dr. I know of that is prescribing these protocols, including GHRH and GHRP's, and your guaranteed pharmaceutical grade quality. No research chems there. That's what I plan on doing sometime in the near future.
you have to actually see him in person. So if you aren't local, it also means airfare, hotel, etc, plus his exam fees. From what I recall even if you have full bloods and regular visits with another physician, you have to see him in person.
you have to actually see him in person. So if you aren't local, it also means airfare, hotel, etc, plus his exam fees. From what I recall even if you have full bloods and regular visits with another physician, you have to see him in person.
But if you look at it from an investment standpoint, i.e. you being the investment, it might seem more reasonable.
You basically have access to all the cutting-edge anti-aging protocols, including GHRT, TRT/HRT, the more advanced urinary analysis of hormone measurements, rapidly advanced gyno and other body sculpting procedures, botox, and whatever advancements in anti-aging happens to come along in the future. Dr John is pretty quick to adapt to the new "stuff" that comes out.
I'm pretty sure you only need to physically go there once. After that, it is usually done via phone consultation.
But yea I understand. Easy for me, I live an hour away from Dr John. Not so much for you other guys.
But back to the original point - That is the only foreseeable solution I can think of to avoid the gray market chems.
Beware that as part of the gastric response, "GHRP-6 enhances neural contractile responses, partially via interaction with the motilin receptor on noncholinergic nerves with tachykinins as mediator, and partially via another receptor that may be a GHS-R subtype on cholinergic nerves that corelease tachykinins." (Sample at least two reports, occurs from time to time)
"In the present study, we provided evidence that in mice, not only ghrelin but also GHRP-6 and capromorelin can increase electrically induced cholinergic contractions, masked by nitrergic nerves, without affecting smooth muscle tonus." - Gastric motor effects of peptide and non-peptide ghrelin agonists in mice in vivo and in vitro, T Kitazawa, Gut 2005 54;1078-1084
Hey Dat!
I have a few questions for ya.
In the first posts I saw that males have a powerfull GH pulse at about 02.00 at night. But if I work at night will I still have a GH pulse at around 02.00?
My perception is that the GH pulse only comes AFTER you fall asleep?
Another question: If I miss the bodys natural GH pulse by say 1 hour, does that interrupt with the GHRP-6 I'm injecting?-Making it less effective?
Most people are using CJC-1295(without DAC). This is what I call modified GRF(1-29).
GHRH (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) as it naturally occurs has 44 amino acids. But because the final 15 amino acids have no effect on GH release (or any other yet ascertained value) they were dropped in the synthetic construction of GHRH. This synthetic construct is called Growth Hormone Releasing Factor (GRF) and the number of amino acids are designated (1-29).
So GRF(1-29) is really the active part of GHRH and it is both a prescription drug called Sermorelin & a research compound called GRF(1-29).
An analog is when changes are made to the structure of GRF(1-29). The primary analogs make these changes by substituting some of the amino acids with others. This is done to increase potency via an increase in receptor-binding strength and or increase half-life by reducing susceptibility to degradation.
The analog that we are most familiar with is modified GRF(1-29), called Tetra-substituted GRF(1-29) in one of the CJC-1295 studies. This analog is also known to us because the Chinese brokers called it this (but is NEVER EVER referred to in scientific literature as) CJC-1295(without DAC).
To the world of science CJC-1295 ONLY refers to GRF(1-29) w/ the modifications, plus a 30th amino acid Lysine attached to a drug affinity complex which enables plasma binding to albumin (post injection).
So to directly answer your question using your terminology CJC-1295(without DAC) is the correct choice.
When I am in the U.S. I go to sleep at around 6 AM...so during those times I too am awake at night.
The answer to your question is that around midnight there is what is called an entrained pulse. By "entrained" I mean a synchronized rhythm. This occurs whether we are asleep or not.
If we are asleep it will be more pronounced. If we are not asleep there will be a pulse but it won't be as large.
The majority of pulsation will still occur when you sleep during Slow Wave Sleep. So to directly answer your question, NO you will not miss the largest pulsatile response if you dose GHRP-6 before you sleep no matter when you happen to sleep.
I experienced the gastric emptying of solids only when I went above 300mcgs in a single injection(incorrectly mixed my first vial). At 100 I didnt get this side effect at all.
I know people like to megadose these peptides. RP tells people I am wrong when I talk about saturation doses of 1mcg/kg. He says dosing should be much higher than 3mcg/kg. Of course he sells the stuff & gets his information from
So here is some science for you on maximal effective dosing.
Growth Hormone-Releasing Activity of Hexarelin, a New Synthetic Hexapeptide, after Intravenous, Subcutaneous, Intranasal, and Oral Administration in Man, E. Ghigo, E. Arvat, L. Gianotti, B. P. Imbimbo, V. Lenaerts, R. Deghenghi, And F. Camanni,J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., Mar 1994; 78: 693 - 698
The greatest effect by the iv route was observed after 2 ug/kg hexarelin, as in a previous phase I study (26). In that study there was a 107% increase in AUC, moving from 0.5-1 ug/kg, and a further 27% augmentation with the 2 ug/kg dose. Thus, 2 ug/kg seems to approach the maximal effective dose.
...
We found a dose-related effect after SC hexarelin. The GH response with the dose of 1.5 ug/kg is similar to that recently reported after SC administration of GHRP-2, which is considered to be the most potent synthetic peptide (14). The biological bioavailability of hexarelin after SC administration was 86.1 +/- 12.0% and 67.9 +/- 17.6% in men and women, respectively. We found a trend toward a lower responsiveness in women, which is in accordance with previous data reported by Bowers using GHRP-6 (14).
26 - Imbimbo BP, Mant T, Edwards I’k, et al.Growth hormone releasing activity of hexarelin in humans: a dose-response study, Abstract 371. Int Symp on Growth Hormone II: Basic and Clinical Aspects. 1992.
So you double effectiveness when you go from .5mcg/kg to 1mcg/kg but just get a further 27% increase by going to 2mg/kg and really no more effect beyond 2mg/kg.
Of course you will increase your hunger but hunger ain't GH release.
dat,
I am still enjoying this thread. I have found GHRP-6 at 100mcg contributes to my gastric emptying process.
Oh, and BTW, I appreciated the humor when you wrote about your evenings:
"But there is no GHRP-6 pituitary problem (as far as I can see and I have really bored myself to death reading literature over potential pituitary problems and given up at least two "sure thing evenings" with a hottie and quite a few "maybe it will happen" evenings and some "listen to her blah, blah, blah with no hope of anything evenings" just to conclude that high dose CJC-1295 is the only release pattern that could present problems)."
That's dedication to better peptiding!
Rob
First off, great thread. I've been around these forums off and on for over 10 years and I cannot think of a more beneficial and "user friendly" thread.
Do you believe there are significant benefits to using GRF(1-29) combined with GHRP-6 to help "heal" one's small intestines from damage caused by a "moderate" case of Crohn's Disease. Any anti-aging properties would be considered a bonus. I noticed you said you had success using peptides to "cure" your intestinal issues but I was hoping you may have further comment on the issue.
The hypothetical doses in mind would be 75mcg of each compound before bed each evening.
Yes sir. Thank you tree... I corrected it in the original post now.
BUT since we are talking about the difference between micrograms & milligrams lets touch on the possibility of orally taking these peptides.
GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin & Ipamorelin all are orally bioavailable.
Then why are we injecting instead of swallowing?
Well depending on the study the GHRPs are between 2% and say 4% bioavailable. So an oral dose (equivalent to 100mcg injected) would be between 25 milligrams & 50 milligrams.
Now that is still a very small amount when you figure that you can fit say 600 milligrams into an "0" size capsule.
...but prohibitively expensive (unless you have beacoup d'argent and own a peptide synthesizer & HPLC).
But this is where the pharmaceutical research is headed. What they did was to look at the GHRP-6 peptide and create small molecular derivatives that were small compounds capable of binding to GH-receptor and effecting GH release.
Roy Smith was primarily involved in this research out of Merck and he has written about it. The small peptide-mimetic of GHRP-6 became a compound called MK-0677. This compound has been around for a while now and proved to be much more potent.
Potent means "how much can something do compared to its size". So a 100 pound man that can press 200 pounds is more potent then a 200 pound man that can press 200 pounds. But they are equally efficacious (they have the same output).
So that is the basic difference between a GHRP & a small molecular compound called a peptide-mimetic. This size difference amounted to the small molecule being more orally bioavailable.
Unfortunately they found that after a period of time MK-0677 became less effective when it was repeatedly orally ingested.
But the research continues and 100s of molecules (many probably unsafe in humans) have been identified. The most promising are derivatives of the GHRP Ipamorelin. These derivatives are currently being tested and look very promising.
Now having said all of this there is a very significant difference between the GHRPs (peptide structure) and the small GH-inducing molecules.
The GHRPs act a few minutes quicker (likely cross the blood-brain barrier faster) but the primary difference is that the GHRPs apparently have significant benefits in peripheral tissue (i.e. non-GH releasing events) that are generally not duplicated by the molecules. These include, prevention of liver inflammation, certain neuroprotective effects (such as preventing cell death from monosodium glutamate toxicity), cardioprotective effects against myocardial ischemia, as well as protection against muscle catabolism in certain caloric deprived conditions & possible direct contribution to anabolism in muscle.
For the most part these small nonpeptide molecules have only a portion of the effects that can & will be found in various tissue.
As we move forward for example, we find that Ghrelin has an effect on the testis and this effect is likely an energy state communication/modulation... but a lot of this stuff depends on the affinity to GHSR-1a & other GHS-R subtypes...and GHS-R subtypes conjectured but yet found.
Here is an interesting table showing where GHS-Receptors have been found in various tissue.
Growth Hormone Secretagogue Binding Sites in Peripheral Human Tissues,Mauro Papotti, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 2000 Vol. 85, No. 10
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I guess now the only ? is kinda the same with the generic blues. Sure they can be safe to run forever at resonable doses, but do we really know what additives and fillers are added to them? Possible contamination or metals, even in very small amounts that over time could cause problems?
