GHRP-6 and CJC1295 ? Questions ?

HawaiiMuscle · Jun 30, 2009

triathloncoach said:
I become ravenous after 100/100. Thank god for Hersey's Choch Moose Tracks Ice Cream.

I know this is an old post, but what the hell...i hate you! But at least I'm not fat.

BigBastard said:
Can you run CJC alone at 100mg/day with good effect? Or is it necessary to combine with GHRP?

Thanks

GHRP can be used as stand alone, not CJC. CJC must be run with GHRP.

BigBastard · Jul 1, 2009

HawaiiMuscle said:
GHRP can be used as stand alone, not CJC. CJC must be run with GHRP.

Thanks!

DatBtrue · Jul 1, 2009

BigBastard said:
Can you run CJC alone at 100mg/day with good effect? Or is it necessary to combine with GHRP?

Thanks

There are three available types of GHRH of which CJC-1295 is one.

Genuine CJC-1295 is present all the time with a half-life measured in days. So if you dose twice a week or break it down into little daily doses it has a an effect at raising base GH levels (not pulses). Natural pulsation will still occur w/ CJC-1295 only but the rise in GH will be from all of the non-pulsation time periods.

A single dose of CJC-1295 "decays" by about 10% a day. So that single dose will follow the "effectiveness" percentages indicated below over the week:

_______Dose (2mg)
Day 0 - 100% (2mg)
Day 1 - 90% (1.8mg remaining)
Day 2 - 81% (1.6mg remaing)
Day 3 - 73% (1.4mg remaining
Day 4 - 65% (1.3mg remaining)
Day 5 - 59% (1.1mg remaining)
Day 6 - 53% (1mg remaining)
Day 7 - 47% (.9mg remaining)
Day 8 - 43% (.8mg remaining)

So a once a week dosing protocol would result in less consistent GH blood levels then the twice a week dosing indicated below (especially so after the initial buildup):

______Dose #1_(1mg)__________Dose #2_(1mg)__________Dose #3_(1mg)
Day 0 - 100% (1mg)
Day 1 - 90% (.9mg remaining)
Day 2 - 81% (.8mg remaing)
Day 3 - 73% (.7mg remaining)
Day 4 - 65% (.6mg remaining) + 100% (1mg) = 1.6mg
Day 5 - 59% (.5mg remaining) + 90% (.9mg remaining) = 1.4mg
Day 6 - 53% (.5mg remaining) + 81% (.8mg remaing) = 1.3mg
Day 7 - 47% (.4mg remaining) + 73% (.7mg remaining) = 1.1mg
Day 8 - 43% (.3mg remaining) + 65% (.6mg remaining) + 100% (1mg) = 1.9mg

With modified GRF(1-29) the half-life is closer to 30 minutes. So it can effect a high release of GH ONLY IF the inhibiting hormone somatostatin isn't active at the time.

Sermorelin or non-modified GRF(1-29) has a half-life of less then 10 minutes.

Seromrelin (+) is GHRH (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone). It is opposed by the hormone Somatostatin (-)

Because GHRH travels a short distance from the Hypothalamus to the adjacent Pituitary, GHRH endogenous release is effective. The vulnerability is limited and plasma degradation is of no consequence.

But exogenous administration is not extremely effective.

It has been demonstrated that degradation at the site of injection of GHRH after subcutaneous administration is extremely rapid. The estimated amount in the circulation after subcutaneous injection was only 4% of that obtained after intravenous administration. *

It is rapidly metabolized in the plasma, as a result of the Ala-Asp (at the 2nd & 3rd position respectively) peptide bond cleavage by dipeptidylpeptidase IV leading to the inactive Growth Hormone Releasing Fragment of amino acids 3–29. **

As a consequence those clinical studies that show longer term benefit and elevated GH & IGF-1 rely on Sermorelin dosages measured in milligrams not micrograms.

Therefore analogs of GHRH have been created that decrease the vulnerability of GHRH in plasma. In particular an amino-acid substitution is made at the 2nd position to reduce the very quick cleavage that normally would occur.

One such analog is what I call modified GRF(1-29). Because of 4 amino acid substitutions it will not rapidly metabolize in plasma and will make its way to the pituitary where it will effect growth hormone release.

Now Dr. Crisler who posts here and in this thread as Swale found in his clinical practice that when he added GHRP-6 to Sermorelin his patients experienced a 1/3 increase in IGF-1 over a Sermorelin only protocol.

So aside from degradation issues, if you don't use a Growth Hormone Releasing Peptide such as GHRP-6 or GHRP-2 with the GHRH then you will have inconsistent GH pulses.

Growth Hormone Releasing Peptides are modulating peptides (analogs of the hormone Ghrelin). They bind to their own receptor in the hypothalamus & pituitary and they initiate a GH pulse (or wave). They do this in part by minimizing the influence of the inhibiting hormone, Somatostatin (-) and increasing the influence of the positive hormone GHRH (+), in addition to their own distinct action of effecting GH release from cells in the pituitary.

There is synergy (i.e. more than additive) in GH release when both GHRH & a GHRP are administered together. But in addition there is consistency & predictability when a GHRP is added because it will initiate a fresh GH pulse (in large part by inhibiting the "off switch", Somatostatin).

So what happens if you administer GHRH or Sermorelin alone?

Remember that naturally GH release is pulsatile. Sometimes there is a big pulse, sometimes a little pulse and sometimes no pulse.

Exogenously administered GHRH administered during a naturally occurring GH trough results in low amounts of GH release while GHRH administered during a rising natural GH pulse will result in high amounts of GH release. See:

The Interaction Between Clonidine And Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone In The Stimulation Of Growth Hormone Secretion In Man, D. Suri, Clinical Endocrinology (1990), 33, 399-406

That is why you can always use a Growth Hormone Releasing Peptide such as GHRP-6 or GHRP-2 and create an immediate pulse of GH. So obviously they work by themselves.

When you add a GHRH to a GHRP you are not wasting it. Rather it will amplify that newly created pulse.

Genuine CJC-1295 is another beast because it is always on. Adding a GHRP in spots creates & amplifies single GH pulses in addition to adding to overall always on levels of GH.

* - Rafferty B, Poole S, Clarke R, Shulster D., Growth hormone-releasing factor analogue (hGRF1-29NH2): immunoreactive-GRF plasma levels after intravenous and subcutaneous administration, J. Endocrinol. 1985; 107: R5–R8.

** - Frohman LA, Downs TR, Williams TC, Heimer EP, Pan Y-CE, Felix AM, Dipeptidylpeptidase IV and trypsin-like enzymatic degradation of human growth hormone-releasing hormone in plasma, J. Clin. Invest. 1986; 78: 906–913.

JUSTKIDDING · Jul 18, 2009

chris250 said:
UPDATES -

as of today im sitting around 254 lbs...Im fuller and probably leaner, I know Im not eating as clean as I should be, but I staying as lean or getting a tad leaner...Im actully suprised that these peptides are working as well as regular HGH...(or damn close to it) Im only on week 3 of these peptides and I can tell that they are working very well...My strengh is way up, and my pumps are sick...

chris

Chris, do you take them both before bedtime?

chris250 · Jul 18, 2009

JUSTKIDDING said:
Chris, do you take them both before bedtime?

Justkidding,

Well when I was taking cjc and ghrp, yeah I took them before bed and in the morning, plus sometime mid day or so...50mcg cjc and about 100mcg of ghrp each time...My strengh was really, really good...I would say even better than on HGH...my pumps were downright sick...but I was somewhat bloated from the peptides...and my blood pressure was kinda higher...But nothing I could handle and control...I think I did a total around 10-12 weeks on the peptides and would do them again in the offseason...Rigth now im in my prep mode, and im just using my normal supplements along with hgh...

chris

Stewie Griffon · Jul 18, 2009

chris250 said:
Justkidding,

Well when I was taking cjc and ghrp, yeah I took them before bed and in the morning, plus sometime mid day or so...50mcg cjc and about 100mcg of ghrp each time...My strengh was really, really good...I would say even better than on HGH...my pumps were downright sick...but I was somewhat bloated from the peptides...and my blood pressure was kinda higher...But nothing I could handle and control...I think I did a total around 10-12 weeks on the peptides and would do them again in the offseason...Rigth now im in my prep mode, and im just using my normal supplements along with hgh...

chris

i feel bloated as well, what is it about the peptides that causes the bloat? i always control my ratio of sodium/potassium as well as all other minerals. i eat clean. as soon as i began peptides i got tons of water retention!! now i am an ugly guy and all this extra water in my face isnt helping lol.

chris250 · Jul 19, 2009

Stewie Griffon said:
i feel bloated as well, what is it about the peptides that causes the bloat? i always control my ratio of sodium/potassium as well as all other minerals. i eat clean. as soon as i began peptides i got tons of water retention!! now i am an ugly guy and all this extra water in my face isnt helping lol.

yeah its crazy with the water thing...I notice within a day or so of starting peptides

DatBtrue · Jul 19, 2009

Stewie Griffon said:
i feel bloated as well, what is it about the peptides that causes the bloat? i always control my ratio of sodium/potassium as well as all other minerals. i eat clean. as soon as i began peptides i got tons of water retention!! now i am an ugly guy and all this extra water in my face isnt helping lol.

This bloat varies. I had it bad for a while.

I have used the peps for about 18 months straight. I only had bloat really bad for 7 weeks total.

But I vary doses and the next time I high dosed I didn't have bloat.

I disagree with blanket statements, because it varies among periods of time and among people.

About 2% (by my estimation) feel so bad that the peptides drag them down. Those people probably can not use them. They tell me that these things are horrible and I believe them because they seem so damn miserable. But then they want to generalize and say high doses will have this effect in everyone.

Thats not true.

wesley · Jul 19, 2009

DatBtrue said:
This bloat varies. I had it bad for a while.

I have used the peps for about 18 months straight. I only had bloat really bad for 7 weeks total.

But I vary doses and the next time I high dosed I didn't have bloat.

I disagree with blanket statements, because it varies among periods of time and among people.

About 2% (by my estimation) feel so bad that the peptides drag them down. Those people probably can not use them. They tell me that these things are horrible and I believe them because they seem so damn miserable. But then they want to generalize and say high doses will have this effect in everyone.

Thats not true.

So what is the reason for the water retention? And why does it disappear after a while?

JUSTKIDDING · Jul 20, 2009

chris250 said:
Justkidding,

Well when I was taking cjc and ghrp, yeah I took them before bed and in the morning, plus sometime mid day or so...50mcg cjc and about 100mcg of ghrp each time...My strengh was really, really good...I would say even better than on HGH...my pumps were downright sick...but I was somewhat bloated from the peptides...and my blood pressure was kinda higher...But nothing I could handle and control...I think I did a total around 10-12 weeks on the peptides and would do them again in the offseason...Rigth now im in my prep mode, and im just using my normal supplements along with hgh...

chris

Thanks Chris!,

I was planning to run a long cycle with it my plan was to take both 100mcg twice or 3 times a day.
For not getting to fat i plan to use dnp or T3 in my cycle.
Was your steroid intake high or low with this cycle Chris?

Good luck with your Prep mode hopefully it all work out as you planned.

JK