drugs for optimal leanness in the offseason-help

guys, I was wondering if any of you know of any good supps or drugs to take besides gh(cost is way too high unfortunately) to keep me fairly lean in the offseason while consuming the large quantities of food I do...any tricks you guys use instead of the gh, like maybe running some clen/t3/ephedrine split into cycles....I do cardio 30 min e/d @ 65 % heart rate pwo...train every day for about 45 min, but I consume a lot of food(up to 7k cals a day sometimes) and I like to eat junk at least once to twice a week and I need to live a little in the offseason, i love to eat and cheat sometimes because if i dont i wont make any gains and ill burn out too quickly, but mostly its b/c of the gains I get, I take 2.5 grams test in the offseason to build some good mass, nothing else, no cycles, just high test, then cruise, then kick it back up, not doing any comps any time soon(trying to add some quality mass before I hit a state show, b/c im still young and have the time to gain size), but I want to look fairly lean b/c I am a personal trainer, and I dont wanna be big and bloated anymore with all the food I constantly eat to get some massive size...any inputs guys or girls..please respond or pm me, whatever , im open to anything

There are drugs that will prevent bloating and estro sides. But not AAS that make you lose fat-its mainly diet. You could use T3 but that is counter to gaining mass IMO. Clen - eph cycled may help.

I've experienced greater muscle fullness and hardness as well as increased vascularity and definition while using a product called C-Gone by Pride Nutrition. You take it before high carb meals and it helps utilize the carbs you eat. It also gives me some pretty wicked pumps in the gym. I like it a lot.

mike, even with the high doses of test ...up to 3 grams/week....t3 can hinder my gains?...and my protein is very high...500g per day..at least...also most of my bloating comes from my diet and excess h20...the estro drugs never cut it...no pun intended...looking for a year round type thing that may help...thanks for your response tho

Jwillbc55 said:

I've experienced greater muscle fullness and hardness as well as increased vascularity and definition while using a product called C-Gone by Pride Nutrition. You take it before high carb meals and it helps utilize the carbs you eat. It also gives me some pretty wicked pumps in the gym. I like it a lot.

Click to expand...

jwill, unfortunately my cheating goes on after the gym, but please do tell me more about this maybe link me to the site if you can...also my protein is super high and my carbs are moderate to low...thanks for the insight

3grams Test / week? Its a shame we don't have a smiley with a gun to its head. Reading your posts day in and out, you should put the juice down son.

jahras12 said:

jwill, unfortunately my cheating goes on after the gym, but please do tell me more about this maybe link me to the site if you can...also my protein is super high and my carbs are moderate to low...thanks for the insight

Click to expand...

www.pridenutrition.com should have the info you need about it. Other companies have similar things out there too Pride is just a company I use a lot. It's supposed to help regulate your blood sugar and reduce sugar cravings and stuff.

dirkmoneyshot said:

3grams Test / week? Its a shame we don't have a smiley with a gun to its head. Reading your posts day in and out, you should put the juice down son.

Click to expand...

i dont do it all year just burst cycles then cruise...but i agree, i go high for a while then cruise at 500mg-1gram tops

dms, im not looking for disrespect, im just looking for info on my bodybuilding, i may never be pro, but I want to excel in what I do, i like to ask questions and get as much info as possible to better myself. please im not looking to be flamed in any way, i know i have a long way to go, i dont use high doses at all year round, just moderate, please dont discriminate me, i just want to seek help from people who have been in my shoes

Not trying to flame or disrespect - However, you need to start using some commone sense.

Eating 7000 kcals and taking 3g of test (wether long term or even short term) is not a safe practice.

BB is a LONG term sport - Listen to Phil H advice, i truly respect what he says even if some disagree. Why hurt your body doing the things your doing. A $5.00 trophy?? Cause your never going to make a dime in this sport so why put your life on the line like your doing.

i understand, i guess im an extremist, but I need to reassess my thinking, im also hungry and feel im invincible...i just want to be the best i can possibly be and look back and say that I lived my life the way I chose to, trophy no trophy, at the end of the day I want a top notch physique...thanks for your input, it makes me think about this a whole lot more

jahras12 said:

i understand, i guess im an extremist, but I need to reassess my thinking, im also hungry and feel im invincible...i just want to be the best i can possibly be and look back and say that I lived my life the way I chose to, trophy no trophy, at the end of the day I want a top notch physique...thanks for your input, it makes me think about this a whole lot more

Click to expand...

Wow man. I have to tell you that you are making a big mistake taking that much. Look, Im not here to point any fingers at all but thats NOT healthy. Your BP has to be high which inturn is going to make your kidneys work OT. When I had doctor prescribed HRT I used 1/6 of that total and grew awesome. Sometimes more is not better......I just cant see how your body can process that much gear at once. Slow down a bit and re-group. Nobody is flaming you bro, more so being concerned for your well being.

im open for ideas...guys, what do you think I should do...how much test should I take, or if nothing what should I do...how long, and if my diet is around 500 g. protein low fat and mod carbs around 3500 cals base diet, I really like my diet this way tho, keeps me full, what should change on the diet...the only thing that keeps me from staying lean year round is the cheat meals I have once -4x per week...how can I counteract this..also I train 6 days per week and try to get cardio in e/d @ 30 min...give me ideas im open to changing my lifestyle now for the better as I see it

You could try T3 and see if you flatten out and/or get weak. If not maybe you could play with it. But be careful. People react differently to T3.

2.5 grams a week I'm in complete agreeance with dirk and AWN here. You need nowhere near that amount of AAS or food for that matter. If you're worried about staying lean, eat to stay lean. It's that simple. There's no super drug that will allow you yo eat 7K cals of crap while looking like the next Shawn Ray. Looking at your physique, you need to get back to the basics. Don't worry about using test, gh or any of that. Eat a good diet, train and have fun with it. To be honest with you, you don't have the build to achieve what you're after. Very few of us do. Don't compromise the rest of your life to chase an unattainable dream. Ten years from now, hell, two years from now your goals may have changed and you may have already suffered the consequences of bad decisions.

I'll get off my soap box now...lol

You posted some pics in the past..Is that what you look like on 3gms of test and 7k cals or were those dieted down pics? Thats alot gear and alot cals...looking at those pics..unless your 7 feet tall..something doesn't add up..(all respect intended.. not a flame) I see you are open to suggestions..and I agree with what most are saying...cut the dosage...get ur diet right..maybee with the help of someone on the board that does that for $$.
that should help..even though sometimes we think we know...I find I'd rather listen to an expert than take differnt peices of advice from 10 differnt people...you end up swithching around all the time and second guessing all the time...Find someone who you belive has the awnsers and do only what they say for 6mos minimum. see where ya are then.. Good Luck

Bro

Hey Jahras12,

You are still young 19 correct....
Slow it down...You have many many years left to achieve your goal.
Your natnatural test leveles are still high. Take it slow and the size will come trust me. Try some winny 50mg ED and 400mg of decka a week to lean out drop the test for know. + cut the junk food out. You will see a big change

thanks for the input guys...yes, i am cutting my test to 500mg, I dont truly want to add on any other drugs besides test, i really like it, i am going to consume around 3k cals/day mostly of protein...low carbs/low fat--kicked in the cardio e/d for 30 min...and still training e/d for about 45 min tops...and like jbk did say, which is the truth my genetics arent the top 1% of the world, so I might as well look good year round and have a nice lean body while gaining muscle slowly, so at least I can look awesome every year until I gain enough muscle to fill out my frame, and I wont ruin my life doing it...I am really gonna push myself to eat good year round with very few cheat days so I can stay in top condition, but also guys I dont want to sound like a fool, even though i already have, but in the offseason could I use a stimulant to help keep the fat at bay? like an eca stack 2x a day every day to just keep cravings away and boost my energy?what do you suggest , I am open to looking good year round so any suggestions would be appreciated

cryptasm said:

You posted some pics in the past..Is that what you look like on 3gms of test and 7k cals or were those dieted down pics? Thats alot gear and alot cals...looking at those pics..unless your 7 feet tall..something doesn't add up..(all respect intended.. not a flame) I see you are open to suggestions..and I agree with what most are saying...cut the dosage...get ur diet right..maybee with the help of someone on the board that does that for $$.
that should help..even though sometimes we think we know...I find I'd rather listen to an expert than take differnt peices of advice from 10 differnt people...you end up swithching around all the time and second guessing all the time...Find someone who you belive has the awnsers and do only what they say for 6mos minimum. see where ya are then.. Good Luck

Click to expand...

cryptasm, when i dieted down, I was on nowhere as much gear..maybe 500 mg tops of some prop and winny and epehdrine to get lean and conserve muscle, my diet was a lot lower around 2k cals, but then I started to get into these forums and saw what the big boys did so i copied and here I am now

Ok here is my advice and you are probably not going to like it but in my opinion this might be the best thing to do. First things first....you gotta come off everything for a little while and let your body try to regain some kind of homeostasis. I didnt realize you are only 19 and if that is the case you are setting yourself up for some serious damage to your HPTA axis. I think I saw somewhere that you stay on that for long periods of time, so its a much needed break. Second of all, get some blood work done pronto. Make sure you are healthy. Check you lipids, liver, prostate, RBC count, kindneys, and see where your test is at. Im guessing at almost 3 grams a week and all that food, even with god awefull genetics youd be pretty bloated and big to some degree. There might be a good chance your shooting Wesson cooking oil in your ass or you test is way underdosed. One thing Im a huge advocate of is eating to get big muscles not eating to get big numbers on the weighing scale. What I mean by that is this. I see tons of guys saying "Hey man I weighed 251 this morning!" Yeah congrats man you look like shit and your fat. Don't get me wrong we all like to see the scale go up, but if the scale is rising and so is your waistline, then something is wrong. Being truely big and being big on the scale are two different things. Take Fakhri Mubarak for instance. He was the guy besides Phil Heath who got a pro card at this years USA. The dude was 194 on stage and looked like a damn monster. When I first saw a pic of him I was like "that guy is gonna give Phil a run for his money for the heavyweight title". Then I was told he was a light heavy !!! Dont get caught up in the scale, the muscle will come. Last of all Id revamp your diet a bit. It seems you are over eating. Id make sure you are eating enough protein and getting in the right amount of calories but 500 grams seems a bit over the top. Eat enough to feed the lean muscle you carry and then go from there. Sometimes as little as 5-600 extra calories is enough to spark some new growth. Gear does not factor into the equation yet at all. Get you diet right and check your health to make sure everything is ok and get on track. I think youll be surprised how much you can really gain once everything is in place. Just my two cents----->AWN<----------