Women and testosterone: An interview with a Mayo Clinic

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Women and testosterone: An interview with a Mayo Clinic specialist
From MayoClinic.com
Special to CNN.com


Testosterone is a word that often brings to mind images of big men, big trucks and gladiator-style football. After all, testosterone is considered to be the principal male hormone, playing an important role in the development and maintenance of typical masculine characteristics, such as facial hair, muscle mass and a deeper voice. So why would women want testosterone? The fact is, women produce it too, and it has more positive influences than you might think.

Paul Carpenter, M.D., is a consultant in endocrinology and health informatics research at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. He has practiced in endocrinology, with a special interest in hormone replacement, for 25
years. Here he addresses questions about the role of testosterone in women.

Testosterone is usually thought of as a male hormone, but women have it, too. How much testosterone do women produce?

Testosterone production is substantially lower in women than it is in men. After puberty, a woman begins to produce a constant, adult level of testosterone. The production is split about 50:50 between the
ovaries and the adrenal glands. In men, the testes produce testosterone. Women produce just a fraction of the amount of testosterone each day that men do.

What does testosterone do for women?

Studies show that it helps maintain muscle and bone and contributes to sex drive, or libido. There are also quality-of-life issues. If you give testosterone replacement to testosterone-deficient women, they
often say they feel better, but they're not specific as to how.

One of the tough things about research in this area is what has been measured and what hasn't. Testosterone levels, muscle mass and bone strength have been measured. When testosterone levels in the blood
increase, bone density generally improves. Although a few researchers have attempted to measure changes in sex drive and overall quality of life, these important effects are much more difficult to assess. A study in
the New England Journal of Medicine evaluated sexuality and quality of life in women with low blood levels of testosterone. After raising their blood
levels of testosterone using a medicated skin patch, health and sexuality seemed to improve.

Which women should have their testosterone levels checked?

It's a complicated answer. After menopause, testosterone production drops, but not as sharply as estrogen does. For women who've had their ovaries
removed, testosterone production drops by roughly one-half, sometimes resulting in less-than-normal testosterone blood levels.

Generally, the women who have too little testosterone are those who may go to their doctor with concerns like, "Ever since I had my ovaries removed, I don't feel like the same person. I'm not as strong, I don't have as much energy and I don't have the same sex drive." Should we measure testosterone in all women who've had their ovaries removed? I don't know. If a woman says her sex life has diminished since her hysterectomy, her doctor may check her testosterone level. If it's low, she can consider testosterone replacement.

Another group at risk of low testosterone is women who have lost pituitary gland function because of a medical condition or past surgery. The pituitary sends hormone messages to the adrenal glands and ovaries. Without the pituitary signal, hormones aren't manufactured. These women require estrogen and cortisone replacement, and they're also testosterone deficient. This isn't a common problem, however.

Why aren't more women being given testosterone replacement?

It's true that very few women are getting testosterone replacement. As I've indicated, good studies about deficiency are sparse. Because of that, many doctors aren't yet convinced of the benefits. In testosterone replacement studies done 15 or 20 years ago, the doses were often too high. As a result, there were side effects, such as body hair growth and acne.

Another major problem is that we don't have good product choices to give women because the drug companies don't manufacture many products for
testosterone replacement in women. In the New England Journal of Medicine study mentioned before, researchers tested a skin patch designed for women. Unfortunately, this patch isn't yet available but may well be in the future. Testosterone patches are available for men, and there is a testosterone gel they can apply to their skin. But because women would
need a much smaller dose, they cannot use the patches or gels designed for men.

Right now there's really not a good way to replace testosterone in women. We can use injections, but most women don't want to come in for a shot every 2 or 3 weeks, and the blood levels are hard to regulate. After an injection, testosterone levels may go up too high, then decline, like a roller coaster. There's no pure testosterone in pill form either. Synthetic pills
are available but tend to be unevenly absorbed into the body and may pose some risk to the liver. Testosterone delivered through the skin with a patch is absorbed quite evenly and seems more natural, with less potential for serious side effects. Using patches doesn't appear to be risky as long as the dose is regulated.

How important is it for women with low testosterone to have it replaced?

It isn't an imminent health danger per se. However, think about the older woman with osteoporosis who has fallen and fractured her hip. If her testosterone is low, would replacement have helped prevent her hip fracture? It's possible. Testosterone has the potential to strengthen her bones. Additionally, she might have been able to prevent the fall if her muscle mass had been better.

If a postmenopausal woman is on hormone replacement therapy (HRT), does that affect her need for testosterone?

Yes. Estrogen therapy ˜ with or without progesterone ˜ can further suppress residual testosterone production by the ovaries. That's because hormone signals from the pituitary gland drive ovarian hormone production. Taking estrogen partially reduces the pituitary hormone signal to the ovaries and potentially reduces testosterone production. The pituitary senses there's enough estrogen, so it doesn't send the signal for more estrogen and testosterone.



The latest on hormone replacement therapy: An interview with a Mayo Clinic specialist


Hormone replacement therapy: Who should take it and what are the alternatives?

What are the side effects of testosterone replacement?

When given in appropriate doses, there are no negative side effects. Today we can measure blood levels, so it's easier to monitor the dose. Excessive testosterone can cause acne, body hair growth and scalp hair loss in women. Excessive testosterone supplementation, such as you'll find with anabolic steroids used by athletes, also tends to drop high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels. That's the "good" cholesterol. Lower HDL levels increase the risk of heart disease.

What about other androgens, such as dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)?

DHEA is a weak androgen or male hormone. Although it's true that DHEA levels decline with age, very few well-designed research studies show benefit from replacement. Another New England Journal of Medicine study says DHEA treatment improves sexual function in women who have underactive adrenal glands, but not many people are using the supplement for that reason. In addition, many people are taking DHEA in very large quantities. Again, excessive amounts of synthetic androgens drive down HDL cholesterol levels, which is considered a cardiovascular risk. People who are ill often have lower-than-normal DHEA or testosterone levels. This appears to be a normal physiologic response to illness and not the cause of the illness.


March 31, 2003



© 1998-2004 Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research (MFMER). All rights reserved. A single copy of these materials may be reprinted for noncommercial personal use only. "Mayo," "Mayo Clinic," "MayoClinic.com," "Mayo Clinic Health Information," "Reliable information for a healthier life" and the triple-shield Mayo logo are trademarks of Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research. Terms of Use.

Other related links:

http://www.wdxcyber.com/nmood10.htm

http://health.discovery.com/centers/womens/testosterone/testosterone.html

http://www.project-aware.org/Resource/articlearchives/testosterone.shtml

The debate over at A-S was if Test relieved hot flashes, night sweats insomnia, etc. associated with menopause. Test doesn't cause strokes, cancer, bleeding, blood clots, etc.

My wife takes Estratest and uses a progesterone cream daily. HRT has helped her greatly since her hysterectomy (sp).

I've been on EstraTest for 5 years with no problems. However, the reason I had a hysterectomy is because a I have a condition called endometriosis. It also increases your chances of endometrial (uterine) cancer. It feeds off estrogen. The doctor I've been going to for over 10 yrs isn't on my insurance network, so I had to go to a new one. This one gave me a progesterone cream, which clearly states on in the literature it increases the risk of endometriosis and endometrial cancer.

The reason I wanted to try test was to give my body a break from the estrogen.

I thought I'd update this thread. After a lot of research and advise from others very knowledgeable in AS. Last year in February I decided to give it a try.

I was advise to try enanthate @ 50mgs twice a week. I was told that would give you a good dose of HRT as well as some to grow. Propionate was another option.

I ended up with Sustanon 250, and it was suggested that I do 100mgs a week. I was still nervous about side effects, so I started with 25mgs. Ok I was being extremely cautious. At 25mgs it definitely kept the hot flashes and night sweats away. I didn't need my EstraTest at all, so if you aren't interested in bulking and just want to keep the menopausal symptoms at bay this will work.

After 12 wks, I decided to increase it to 50 mgs a wks. This is great. You have enough to keep the menopausal symptoms away plus some to grow on, but not get really bulky. The max cycle I did was for 8 wks 100 mgs. I still didn't notice any side effects, but was just concerned about staying on this for long term.

After a year I'm very happy with the results and the benefits. I'm doing 50 mgs a wk, and I haven't had any trouble with menopausal symptoms. I haven't been on my HRT (EstraTest) since.

I was thinking if some test gel, in very small ammounts, could be applied to the female to increase her sex drive, and also while on a cycle. I'm talking about small ammounts.

Putin, one of the members on MU.com his wife is using the cream and it seems to be working very well for her. She's had a hysterectomy too, and she is a runner likes run marathons.

Women do need test, just no where near the amont as we do. I know the topical creams and gels do work wonders for women in your situations. The problem arises when too much exogenous test is administered. As for test and women BBers, again in very small amounts, will have incredible benefits. But what is a very small amount, like the article said, No one is really doing too much hard core research to find out. The information available is scant. My opinion is that the major drug companies are holding out on this so they can make a ton of money on some of the "worthless HRT" they push. I believe they use these methods to induce some unwanted sides so they can sell other drugs to counter the sides and so on, until the effect is akin to a dog chasing it's tail. The major Pharm companies have a lot to answer for, but as long as they keep uncle sam in thier hip pocket they will never have to explain to much to anyone. Just a little theory of mine!!

oldfella said:

Women do need test, just no where near the amont as we do. I know the topical creams and gels do work wonders for women in your situations. The problem arises when too much exogenous test is administered. As for test and women BBers, again in very small amounts, will have incredible benefits. But what is a very small amount, like the article said, No one is really doing too much hard core research to find out. The information available is scant. My opinion is that the major drug companies are holding out on this so they can make a ton of money on some of the "worthless HRT" they push. I believe they use these methods to induce some unwanted sides so they can sell other drugs to counter the sides and so on, until the effect is akin to a dog chasing it's tail. The major Pharm companies have a lot to answer for, but as long as they keep uncle sam in thier hip pocket they will never have to explain to much to anyone. Just a little theory of mine!!

Click to expand...

Well put, most people wouldnt believe this lol

Sassy,

Excellent post. Very informative and the information falls in line with what studied on my own. There is actually a group of women who have gone this route and have large gatherings to talk about the beneficial effects they've had in their own lives. I'll have to look it up, but off the top of my head I think it's called the National Menopause Society or something very close.

Testosterone HRT for women

Posted by QueenofDamned
at freakzonline.com
http://freakzonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33787
___________________________________________________________

PERIMENOPAUSE UPDATE
Objectives

Describe changes in androgens in aging, menopause, and following oophorectomy.
Define patients who might be appropriate for testosterone therapy.
Discuss alternative medical therapy versus prescription medical therapy.
WOMEN AND LIBIDO-IS THERE A ROLE FOR TESTOSTERONE?
Testosterone is an important metabolic and sex hormone produced by the ovary throughout a woman's lifetime, with levels changing at different times of life and under certain medical conditions. The variable reduction in testosterone production during the perimenopause is sometimes associated with a syndrome of specific changes in sexual desire and sexual response.1 Estrogen deficiency also impairs sexual response, but its replacement will not improve and might exacerbate sexual symptoms from androgen loss.2

Decreasing testosterone may be one of many possible causes of decreasing sexual desire; however, disorders of desire are complex and require careful, non-judgmental history taking. Testosterone replacement/supplementation may be appropriate in a small percentage of women who complain of decreased desire.3 Many women experiencing the clinical symptoms of androgen deficiency and low free testosterone levels respond well to testosterone replacement therapy.

Androgen Production
There is very little androgen action in the female fetus-the placenta has absorbed all the mother's androgens and although fetal adrenal glands produce a high level of weak androgens, the female usually is not virilized in humans. Androgens remain relatively low until adrenarche, when dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) develops. During puberty, the adrenal gland makes higher levels of weak androgens-DHEAS is very high during puberty into the early twenties. The adrenal and ovarian androgen production from puberty to menopause is relatively high, although there is a decline of adrenal production after the early twenties while ovarian production continues until well after menopause. The predominant symptom of women with androgen deficiency is loss of sexual desire.4 This is not limited to women experiencing a surgical menopause but may also be a feature of women who have either undergone premature or natural menopause.


Blood Production Rates of Steroids
(Mg / day) Reproductive Age Postmenopausal Oopherectomized
Androstenedione 2-3 0.5-1.0 0.4-0.8
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) 6-8 1.5-4.0 1.5-4.0
Dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) 8-16 4-9 4-9
Testosterone 0.2-0.25 0.05-0.1 0.02-0.07
Estrogen 0.350 0.045 0.045

Menopause and Disorders of Desire
Sexuality and sexual function involve more than just physical ability; psychological factors are just as important. The aging process involves many normal physical changes, some of which naturally affect sexuality. There is a gradual slowing of response, but women do not ordinarily lose their capacity for orgasm.5,6 During menopause, women may experience a variety of conditions that cause changes in sexual function. These changes include diminished sexual responsiveness, dyspareunia (painful intercourse related to estrogen deficiency), decreased sexual activity, decreased desire, a dysfunctional male partner, or lack of a partner.7 When assessing disorders of desire, answers to the following questions will provide important clues:

What is the nature of the patient's current sexual activity?
Is there an identifiable event associated with loss of desire?
How much disparity is there between the patient's desire and her partner's?
It is the issues surrounding a woman's autoerotic behavior, her own sexual thoughts, dreams and fantasies, and masturbation, which define a woman's libido that need to be examined. Is the problem really lack of interest or is it anger, fear of rejection, or negative messages partners give to one another? Is the lack of desire selective? Is the underlying effort to remain sexually aloof a way to punish or control the partner? Have there been attempts to solve the problem?

It is important to determine if there is a surgical event connected to loss of desire. Women who can clearly define their sexual drive through issues of fantasy and desire, and who can say there was a specific drop associated with a specific medical event, are very likely to respond to androgen therapy.8

There are a number of medical causes of decreased libido. These include acute and chronic illness, fatigue, malnutrition, alcohol, drugs, stroke, pituitary disease, renal disease, depression, and testosterone and estrogen deficiency. Traumatic deliveries can also result in chronic dyspareunia and incontinence, both affecting sexual relations and satisfaction.

Possible Medical Causes of
Decreased Libido
Illnesses Virtually any illness (genital or general; physical, emotional, or both): liver, renal, cardiac or hormonal disease, cystitis, anemia, hypertension, stroke, cancer, neurologic disease, colostomy, neostomy, bladder surgery, incontinence, herpes virus or HIV infection, gonorrhea, venereal warts.

Medications Antihypertensives, antineoplastic drugs, some antidepressants, (including selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors), major or minor tranquilizers (depending on dose), diuretics, antihistamines.

Treatments Major surgery (hysterectomy, mastectomy, cardiac bypass, organ transplant), dialysis, radiotherapy, chemotherapy.



There are also interpersonal causes of disorders of desire. These include reduced sexual attractiveness of patient or partner, boring sexual routines, situational disturbances, and marital adjustment problems. Contrary to popular belief, marriages do not increase in emotional intimacy with time.9 It is not uncommon for a couple who were very sexually active in their twenties to lack emotional intimacy in their forties. The kind of emotional intimacy that leads to desire is often lacking in long-term married relationships.

In disorders of desire, 90 percent of it has to do with the relationship. However, 10 percent of it may be related to decreasing levels of testosterone. The biggest question to ask in evaluating disorder is whether the patient has had desire in the past, including autoerotic behavior and fantasies.

Androgen Therapy
Changes in the circulating levels of androgens play an important role in psychologic and sexual changes that occur after menopause. The effects of short-term estrogen therapy in improving psychologic symptoms, maintaining vaginal lubrication, decreasing vaginal atrophy, and increasing pelvic blood flow in postmenopausal women are well documented; however, some patients require more than estrogen alone to improve psychologic dysfunction, decreased sexual desire, or other sexual problems associated with menopause. Results from clinical studies show that hormone replacement therapy with estrogen plus androgens provides greater improvement in psychologic (e.g., lack of concentration, depression, and fatigue) and sexual (e.g., decreased libido and inability to have an orgasm) symptoms than does estrogen alone in naturally and surgically menopausal women.10

For menopausal women who have never had much sexual desire, or who experience no change in libido, testosterone would probably not be the right therapy. But for those women who have felt sexual desire and wonder where it went, testosterone may be helpful.

During menopause, low estrogen levels lead to vulvar and vaginal atrophy,11 which can cause discomfort. This can have a dampening effect on libido, although lubricants can help. Estrogen replacement therapy can increase vulvar sensation and decrease dyspareunia, but it does not do anything for desire.12

Non-androgenic progestins in oral contraceptives, with the addition of ethinyl estradiol, can drive free testosterone to very low levels. This will eliminate the mid-cycle surge of androgens and accompanying surge of autoerotic and sex-seeking behavior in humans related to ovulation.

There is no convincing evidence that adding physiologic doses of androgens consistently enhances libido in menstruating women. Naturally menopausal women over 50 still produce a fair amount of androgens, for at least five to 10 years. For 35- to 60-year-old women who have had oophorectomies, there may be an increase in libido with the addition of androgens.13 Evidence that this is the case comes from a study, comparing estrogen-only, estrogen-testosterone, and placebo therapy in women who have had oopherectomies.14 The levels of testosterone used in the study were, however, superphysiologic, sometimes four to five times the average in males.

Testosterone and estrogen combined may increase bone density more than estrogen alone.15 Recent studies have also shown estrogen-androgen therapy to contribute to the prevention of osteoporosis and reduce serum levels of total cholesterol, triglycerides, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol.16,17 Finally, there appears to be some connection between testosterone and an elevated sense of well being in some patients, although this is difficult to assess given the powerful placebo effect.18

For women who might be candidates, there are a number of androgen therapies available: combined oral conjugated estrogens, injectables, subcutaneous testosterone pellets, transdermal patches (in development), and creams and gels.


Androgens and Estrogens


Oral Dosages
Diethylstilbestol (DES) amd Methyltestosterone
0.25 mg DES/5 mg methyltestosterone
1x day for 21 days (7 days off)
Dosage may be decreased to 0.125 mg DES/2.5 mg methyltestosterone

Conjugated Estrogens and Methyltestosterone
1.25 mg conjugated estrogens/10 mg methyltestosterone
1x day for 21 days (7 days off)

Esterfied Estrogens and Methyltestosterone
0.625 to 2.5 mg esterfied estrogens and 1.25 to 5 mg methyltestosterone
1x day for 21 days (7 days off)

Fluoxymesterone and Ethinyl Estradiol
1 to 2 mg fluoxymesterone and 0.02 to 0.04 mg ethinyl estradiol
2x day for 21 days (7 days off)

Injection Dosages
(not recommended or commonly used in the United States)
Testosterone Cypionate and Estradiol Cypionate
50 mg testosterone cypionate/2 mg estradiol cypionate
1x every 4 weeks

Testosterone Enanthate and Estradiol Valerate
90 mg testosterone enanthate/4 mg estradiol valerate
1x evey 4 weeks

Testosterone Enanthate Benzilic Acid Hydrazone, Estradiol Dienanthate, and Estradiol Benzoate
150 mg testosterone enenthate benzilic acid hydrazone/7.5 mg estradiol dienanthate/
1 mg estradiol benzoate
1x every 4 to 8 weeks or less


Oral preparations are difficult to evaluate because their androgen delivery cannot be measured; only secondary effects can be measured. So it is hard to tell whether patients are receiving a lot or not enough testosterone. Transdermal preparations can vary in application effectiveness and dosing, but can achieve very high testosterone levels.

Androgen therapy does have side effects. These include hirsutism, increased facial oiliness, acne, deepening voice, hostility, weight gain, alopecia,19 elevated liver functions, lower HDL levels, and (rarely) epedicellular carcinoma.20 Finding the right balance that will help women with their libido without causing adverse side effects is very difficult. How much is too much or too little testosterone has yet to be determined.

Other potential indications for androgen therapy in women are currently being evaluated. These include use in women with premature ovarian failure, premenopausal androgen deficiency symptoms, postmenopausal and glucocorticosteroid-related bone loss, alleviation of wasting syndrome secondary to human immunodeficiency virus infection, and management of premenstrual syndrome.21

REFERENCES
1 Davis SR. Androgen replacement in women: a commentary. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1999 Jun;84(6):1886-91.

2 DeCherney AH. Hormone receptors and sexuality in the human female. J Womens Health Gend Based Med. 2000;9 Suppl 1:S9-13.

3 Sarrel PM. Effects of hormone replacement therapy on sexual psychophysiology and behavior in postmenopause. J Womens Health Gend Based Med. 2000;9 Suppl 1:S25-32.

4 Davis SR. The therapeutic use of androgens in women. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1999 Apr-Jun;69(1-6):177-84.

5 Masters WH. Sex and aging - expectations and reality. Hospital Practice. August 15, 1986. 175-198.

6 Meston CM. Aging and sexuality. West J Med. 1997 Oct;167(4):285-90.

7 Kingsberg SA. Postmenopausal sexual functioning: a case study. Int J Fertil Womens Med. 1998 Mar-Apr;43(2):122-8

8 Myers CS, et al. Effect of estrogen, androgen, and progestin on sexual psychophysiology and behavior in post-menopausal women. J Endocrinol Metab 1990;70(4): 1124-1131.

9 Greer R. et al. Aspects of geriatric sexuality. Family Practice Recertification. Vol 13:No 6: 57-73.

10 Sarrel PM. Psychosexual effects of menopause: role of androgens. Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1999 Mar;180(3 Pt 2):319-14.

11 Cutson TM, Meuleman E. Managing menopause. Am Fam Physician. 2000 Mar 1;61(5):1391-400, 1405-6.

12 Naftolin F, et al. The cellular effects of estrogens on neuroendocrine tissues. J Steroids Biochem 1988;Vol 30:195-107.

13 Myers CS, et al. Effect of estrogen, androgen, and progestin on sexual psychophysiology and behavior in post-menopausal women. J Endocrinol Metab 1990;70(4): 1124-1131.

14 Sherwin BB, Gelfand MM. Differential symptom response to parenteral estrogen and/or androgen administration in the surgical menopause. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1995;151: 153-160.

15 Shoupe D. Androgens and bone: clinical implications for menopausal women. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1999 Mar;80 (3 pt 2):329-333.

16 Bachmann GA. Androgen cotherapy in menopause: evolving benefits and challenges. Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1999 Mar;180(3 Pt 2):308-11. 17 Hoeger KM, Guzick DA. The use of androgens in menopause. Clin Obstet Gynecol. 1999 Dec;42(4):883-94.

18 Sherwin BB, Gelfand MM. Differential symptom response to parenteral estrogen and/or androgen administration in the surgical menopause. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1995;151: 153-160.

19 Redmond GP. Hormones and sexual function. Int J Fertil Womens Med. 1999 Jun-Aug;44(4):193-7.

20 Hoeger KM, Guzick DS. The use of androgens in menopause. Clin Obstet Gynecol. 1999 Dec;42(4):883-94.

21 Davis S. Androgen replacement in women: a commentary. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1999 Jun;84(6):1886-91.

oldfella said:

Women do need test, just no where near the amont as we do. I know the topical creams and gels do work wonders for women in your situations. The problem arises when too much exogenous test is administered. As for test and women BBers, again in very small amounts, will have incredible benefits. But what is a very small amount, like the article said, No one is really doing too much hard core research to find out. The information available is scant. My opinion is that the major drug companies are holding out on this so they can make a ton of money on some of the "worthless HRT" they push. I believe they use these methods to induce some unwanted sides so they can sell other drugs to counter the sides and so on, until the effect is akin to a dog chasing it's tail. The major Pharm companies have a lot to answer for, but as long as they keep uncle sam in thier hip pocket they will never have to explain to much to anyone. Just a little theory of mine!!

Click to expand...

When my doctor started me on HRT, the reports about the dangers of HRT for women were just coming out. My mom who had been on HRT for yrs was all upset telling me I didn't need to be on them and that she was getting off hers. After spending months of sleepless nights and long days full of hot flashes, I was frustrated, tired and extremely bitchy. I couldn't stand myself, and wasn't sure how anyone else could stand me. I decided it was a matter of quality of life, and I was going to stay on the HRT's.

It's a huge debate over which is best. The Pharm companies are going to be just like the tobacco industry and never really reveal all research on their studies because they are making way too much money right now.

Research on HRT has been shown to increase the risk of breast cancer, stroke, clots, heart disease and dementia. You can do a search on the web that will give you link after link on these studies. Of course there are just as many studies by the pharm companies saying it's not that bad, and that the benefits out way the dangers. They also recommend not staying on HRT more than three to five years. What does someone do who is young and has a hysterectomy? They recommend herbs and other alternative treatments that the majority of the time don't work for most women. I was one of them. They didn't do a darn thing for me.

Then I have a double whammy... the very thing that cause me to have a hysterectomy, Endometriosis, feeds off progesterone. The very thing that the pharm want to use in most HRT. These progesterone based HRT are not recommend for women who have had Endometriosis or who are at risk of Endo cancer, because they increase your chances for Endometriosis or endo cancer.

That's why I've searched for alternative that lead me to test. Since the test like most bb (men) use is more natural than the stuff pharm companies use in women's HRT it doesn't cause cancer. It doesn't increase your risk for all the things that the pharm HRT does. Amazing isn't... by all means I'm not saying it is the answer. Some women can take the herbal remedies and it will work wonders for them, but other it will not.

I happen to agree with oldfella... the pharm companies are pocketing all this money, and we'll never really know the truth about HRT. Uncle Sam has so much control over us that we don't get to make choices over alternative medical...

Sorry didn't mean to get on my soap box...

I'm just doing what I think is best for my well being. I wanted to be able to help others who want to know there are other options out there, and might feel the same way I do. Speaking of other options... there are testosterone patches also available, so if the cream doesn't work... there is another option.

Sassy, There are times when we all have to take matters into our own hands. It is the sheer ignorance of MD's and othere that simply place women in your situation in the "TOO HARD BASKET". And Btw Darlin, no apology needed here sweetie. I'm with you on this. I would try to find a low dose exogenous test and give it a try. I mean if the doctors won't help you then you go it alone, almost. Some women and men also respond very well to natural herbal remedies. I'm one of those men that had shut down a while back, probably in part due to my own actions with regard to AAS. I take responsibility for this and blame no one. I have never abused gear but in pursuit of my passion for BBing used test and deca and a few orals here and there. I'm 48 now and I have tried evry known form of test booster, libido enhancer etc and all of these had ZERO effect on me! My take is you have to have some production going on in the first place to be able to enhance what you've got, but zero from zero still = zero!! So i decided to do my own form of HRT and guess what, It F*****g works!! I'll do this for as long as I can get my hands on some good quality test! The Doctors here are still in the dark ages with hrt for men and even farthewr behind in HRT for women, they all just throw a bunch of piulls at you and say "TRY THIS" and if that will not work in a couple of months then come back and we'll try "THIS". In the mean time you are still suffering, your relationships get taxed big time and no solution is forth coming. So you then take matters into your own hands and you wil have your answer. The problem for women is "HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH"?? This is where the mine field begins. Your post is spot on and the articles you are citing are excellent. I hope more women get here to read them. Go for it girl! I guess we need some pioneers here!! Be careful.

Thanks for the support. A friend suggested this board to me because of my research on test for women. Only after my search results came up with very little and q's that I posted went unanswered, I decided to post some information that I found and start adding more info on this subject. I hope to help other women.

We are all here with the same goal... improve our bodies. When you body's hormones don't cooperate, then you start feeling like you are defeating your purpose. It becomes very frustrating. This isn't even mentioning the frustrations in relationships like you were talking about that low/off balanced hormones cause. I've always had a high sex drive, and when I was married he didn't. In fact... he had no sex drive. That was one of the many things that lead to our divorce. Now I look back I often wonder if his low sex drive was due to test deficiency. By all means I don't think that would have solved our other problems, but for some it might would help save their marriage.

I've seen so many post by men on bb boards that their wives don't have a sex drive. If they had a little help with their test levels whither with patch, cream or injection, then it could make a difference to their marriages. For me, I have always had trouble with dryness and being on test has made such big difference. It's like a huge bonus... I'm building muscle and enjoy great sex... of course I wouldn't be having sex at all if it wasn't for my incredible bf

Yes, the biggest unanswered question is "how much is enough?" The only advise I can give is to start with the lowest amount and go from there. I don't see anything wrong with trying the patch or creams first. If they don't work, then you can always go from there to small dose of injectables.

This is a good thread Sassy. Thanks for bringing this info to light.

Good info oldfella, as always!

I started first on a testosterone cream prescribed by my doc for no libido. Blood tests showed my free test at 13 - normal was 75-150. It's worked wonders, ask Dad!
I'm currently undergoing treatment for endometriosis and fibroids, and was put into chemical menopause. I hate the hot flashes, and had been using a progesterone-only pill, as most my sensitivity is for estrogen. Even then I don't take it every day, only when the symptoms get unbearable.
I would really like to hear more about how the test is working for menopausal symptoms.

Mom, Thanks for the in put on the test therapy. Good to hear from someone else who has been on it.

I had endo too. I ended up having laser surgery twice, before my I finally had a hysterectomy. I'm surprised they gave you progesterone while you are on menopause. I just had to suffer through the hot flashing each time they put me in menopause, because they said Progesterone feeds the endo.

I've been cycling the test for a year now. At first I would cycle off the test and take my HRT while I was off. Now I just cycle off the test, and once my menopause symptoms start back up then I start back on the test. It would be so much easier if my doctor would monitor my test levels. I am just not sure how long to stay on it. Right now due to crappy insurance... I don't even have a doctor. None of the doctors in my area are on the insurance's network, so I've got to find a new one in another town.

While I'm on test I don't have any menopause symptoms at all. It's great, plus I get the bonus side effects that my fiance very much enjoys.

Sassy, my doctor and I agreed that my problems had much more to do with my way-out-of-whack estrogen levels, so my HRT is just for progesterone.
I may have to do the hysterectomy at some point, but I'm just not ready to take that big a step yet. What are you doing for the test again?

Hey Sassy, great avayar there girl, is that you???? Very nice.
I would suggest you try and find a minimal dose of test and stay on! I would have to believe that test will halt all syptoms of menopause. Test is one of the most underated and misunderstood hormones in women. Test is a requirement for other hormonal activity in the body as well as psychological wellbeing. I have no doubt that when on your test you live up to your tag name here!!! Am I correct? My ex had a hysterectomy, not full, they left the ovaries intact. But they never checked her test levels, ever. Just kept giving her all the different HRT combos. I would read the labels and of course none had any form of test at all. So I tried an experiment. I gave her a supplement called ultimate male fuel. It was on the market here in Oz a while back, but the TGA (Therapuetic Goods Administration) made the distributor pull it from the shelves. This stuff was amazing. it actually did what it claimed. I believe it boosted her natural test levels back to where they belonged. The change was apparent after one week. She was a different woman. And libido????? Holy cow, it was off the charts. So I for one am a big believer in test for women, I just wish I knew the magic number!! I have a lot of compassion for you ladies out there suffering with what to me seems like a reasonably simple problem to fix. I say YES TO TEST. If the doctors will not help then you need top take measures into your own hands. It is a shame that GP's will not get on board with this. Perhaps more female physicians will hear the call!! Who knows..................................................?

Mom said:

Sassy, my doctor and I agreed that my problems had much more to do with my way-out-of-whack estrogen levels, so my HRT is just for progesterone.
I may have to do the hysterectomy at some point, but I'm just not ready to take that big a step yet. What are you doing for the test again?

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I've been through the whacked out hormones before too. After one of my competitions they got all out of whack, I ended up having a period every two weeks for 3 months. Not to mention PMS'd for 3 months straighted... lord, it's a wonder I didn't hurt someone. lol

Right now I'm doing a cutting cycle, so I'm taking Sustanon 250 (50 mgs per wk) and anavar.

Other options are Enanthate @ 50mgs twice a week to keep from spiking... or propionate. When I started my first cycle, I only used 25 mgs per week, and then the next cycle I increased it to 50mgs.

Thanks, oldfella. No, that's not me. I haven't been brave enough to post my pics on here yet. There seem to be so many pros on here that it's a little intimidating. I did attach one in my profile... back/bi's from one of my competitions.

Yes, I was thinking staying on a min. dose too. I'm amazed how many female doctors are out there and don't give any thought to test therapy. It is such a shame. Hopefully one day they will figure it out... probably when those female doctors go through menopause then it will change.