Quad strain question

jesse7159 · Jul 2, 2008

So I have a pretty bad quad strain on the bottom of my outer sweep down near my knee. I got it about 4 to 5 months ago and it wont go away and I cant really go heavy on squats ect. deep tissue massage has done nothing to help. any ideas? I was thinking ultrasound?? thanks guys im 14 weeks out and want this thing healed up.

oldfella · Jul 2, 2008

jesse7159 said:
So I have a pretty bad quad strain on the bottom of my outer sweep down near my knee. I got it about 4 to 5 months ago and it wont go away and I cant really go heavy on squats ect. deep tissue massage has done nothing to help. any ideas? I was thinking ultrasound?? thanks guys im 14 weeks out and want this thing healed up.

As I see it you have two options, let it rest and then rehab it slowly or train around it in which case you are resting it anyway. If you can do other leg work around squats then do that.

rmnivs243 · Jul 3, 2008

jesse7159 said:
So I have a pretty bad quad strain on the bottom of my outer sweep down near my knee. I got it about 4 to 5 months ago and it wont go away and I cant really go heavy on squats ect. deep tissue massage has done nothing to help. any ideas? I was thinking ultrasound?? thanks guys im 14 weeks out and want this thing healed up.

this is a very unfortunate and tenuous situation. on the one hand, you want this thing healed and don't want it to linger. the only real option for that is rest. on the other hand, you are competing in 3 months and don't want to show up looking completely asymmetrical. although i would not recommend this for the average guy, i would say in your situation, your best bet is to go to a doctor and get a serious cortisone or comparable anti-inflammatory/steroidal shot. this certainly won't heal the strain, but it will allow you to train at the level that you need to until after the show and you can finally rest it. i would also suggest trying to get some naproxen or endocen (anti-inflammatory and pain medications). again, this is a short term solution. i used to deal with muscle strains and aches mid-season in football and baseball and this was my only choice as being sidelined was never an option.

muscle96ss · Jul 3, 2008

jesse7159 said:
So I have a pretty bad quad strain on the bottom of my outer sweep down near my knee. I got it about 4 to 5 months ago and it wont go away and I cant really go heavy on squats ect. deep tissue massage has done nothing to help. any ideas? I was thinking ultrasound?? thanks guys im 14 weeks out and want this thing healed up.

Please elaborate on location and symptoms. Any disfiguration or lumps? My concern is how close in relation to the tendon your problem is. Also I would stay away from cortisone injections unless you want to risk a ccomplete rupture.

Ashop · Jul 3, 2008

jesse7159 said:
So I have a pretty bad quad strain on the bottom of my outer sweep down near my knee. I got it about 4 to 5 months ago and it wont go away and I cant really go heavy on squats ect. deep tissue massage has done nothing to help. any ideas? I was thinking ultrasound?? thanks guys im 14 weeks out and want this thing healed up.

that long of injury time to see a doctor

rmnivs243 · Jul 3, 2008

muscle96ss said:
Please elaborate on location and symptoms. Any disfiguration or lumps? My concern is how close in relation to the tendon your problem is. Also I would stay away from cortisone injections unless you want to risk a ccomplete rupture.

i would suggest seeing a doctor and getting an MRI. if it is indeed a tendon or ligament an anti-inflammatory medication would definitely be advised, especially if your intent is to keep training. as for your quad rupturing, unless you plan on trying to squat or leg press or leg extend 1000 pounds, i think you should be alright. your body generally gives you signals before major ruptures happen (not to mention, muscles don't rupture, they only tear further than normal, in this case your small strain/tear might become a big one). furthermore, a major 'rupture' (tear) is far more likely to happen to a fast-twitch athlete like a sprinter or someone pushing massive amounts of weight in quick-time like a power-lifter. cortisone is definitely advisable so long as you don't over-do it and listen to your body's cues. the bottom line is that a doctor, looking at the radiologist report and MRI pictures will be better prepared to answer this question.

muscle96ss · Jul 3, 2008

rmnivs243 said:
i would suggest seeing a doctor and getting an MRI. if it is indeed a tendon or ligament an anti-inflammatory medication would definitely be advised, especially if your intent is to keep training. as for your quad rupturing, unless you plan on trying to squat or leg press or leg extend 1000 pounds, i think you should be alright. your body generally gives you signals before major ruptures happen (not to mention, muscles don't rupture, they only tear further than normal, in this case your small strain/tear might become a big one). furthermore, a major 'rupture' (tear) is far more likely to happen to a fast-twitch athlete like a sprinter or someone pushing massive amounts of weight in quick-time like a power-lifter. cortisone is definitely advisable so long as you don't over-do it and listen to your body's cues. the bottom line is that a doctor, looking at the radiologist report and MRI pictures will be better prepared to answer this question.

Nothing personal rmnivs but we seem to have different viewpoints/perspectives on things. The cortisone injection will weaken the tendon. If the tendon is already compromised(which is a very possible scenario) then you create a new scenario where a rupture becomes very possible if the tendon continues to be stressed as you have recommended. You don't need to be using a ton of weight as the injury would already be sending an inhibitory signal to the muscle to protect it and even using weight that you would not normally deem too strenuous it would be quite possible to overload it.

rmnivs243 · Jul 3, 2008

muscle96ss said:
Nothing personal rmnivs but we seem to have different viewpoints/perspectives on things. The cortisone injection will weaken the tendon. If the tendon is already compromised(which is a very possible scenario) then you create a new scenario where a rupture becomes very possible if the tendon continues to be stressed as you have recommended. You don't need to be using a ton of weight as the injury would already be sending an inhibitory signal to the muscle to protect it and even using weight that you would not normally deem too strenuous it would be quite possible to overload it.

yes, if you read my post you would see that i said 1.get an MRI to find out the underlying problem, whether it be tendon, ligament or muscle. 2. if it is indeed tendon, anti-inflammatory medication (not cortisone) is advisable. 3. if it it not a tendon injury, and is in fact a muscular strain, cortisone should be fine.

this also depends on what your view of cortisone is. some doctors feel that cortisone actually weakens the structure it is injected into (particularly tendons). whether or not this is true, if you are planning to train for a show anyway, i would rather train pain free. i have personally had cortisone injections in my shoulder while pitching and have never had a tendon rupture or caused further damage to my shoulder. while on cortisone i was symptomatically cured, but my injury was just masked. i had no problem healing once in the off season and off of the cortisone.

muscle96ss · Jul 3, 2008

rmnivs243 said:
3. if it it not a tendon injury, and is in fact a muscular strain, cortisone should be fine.

What is the actual definition of a muscle strain?? Last time I checked a muscle strain includes the entire musclotendinous unit. If you are suggesting that if the strain is soley in the muscle belly and not the tendon that a cortisone injection is appropriate then perhaps you can site some specific examples of shooting cortisone into a muscle belly as that would be completely ludicrous.

rmnivs243 said:
i have personally had cortisone injections in my shoulder while pitching and have never had a tendon rupture or caused further damage to my shoulder. while on cortisone i was symptomatically cured, but my injury was just masked. i had no problem healing once in the off season and off of the cortisone.

Totally different ballgame there. They are shooting cortisone into the subacromial space to decrease inflammation from impingement.

I appreciate your attempts to be helpful, but your lack of anatomical and medical knowledge in this and the stretching thread are not allowing you to understand concepts properly.

rmnivs243 · Jul 3, 2008

muscle96ss said:
What is the actual definition of a muscle strain?? Last time I checked a muscle strain includes the entire musclotendinous unit. If you are suggesting that if the strain is soley in the muscle belly and not the tendon that a cortisone injection is appropriate then perhaps you can site some specific examples of shooting cortisone into a muscle belly as that would be completely ludicrous.

Totally different ballgame there. They are shooting cortisone into the subacromial space to decrease inflammation from impingement.

I appreciate your attempts to be helpful, but your lack of anatomical and medical knowledge in this and the stretching thread are not allowing you to understand concepts properly.

again, your diagnosis of the situation, medicine and my background is incorrect. this discussion is futile without an MRI, but don't go googling medical terms and making diagnoses without all the information. I have a B.S. in bio-chemistry (and if you are on other boards such as alinboard, you will know that i was the person who chemically broke down the Stealth products and found out they have histamines.) I have a masters in exercise physiology and am a 3rd year med student. I also spent two summers interning for an ortho surgeon at the hospital for special surgery whose speciality is sports medicine.

furthermore to this end, my knowledge in the stretching thread was limited to my 'opinion' and my personal experience with stretching, not on medicine. i have actually performed high level athletics, so i felt it might help others out to hear someone else's experience, rather than throwing out anatomical terms that 1. don't help anyone 2.don't make sense relative to the lack of information we are dealing with.

presumptive criticism, especially when dealing with medicine is a weakness. there are no certainties with the human body; science is not certain. in order to gain a better understanding of what it is to train, learn medicine and most importantly to be on an open forum such as this, i think you should be more open to what other people have to say.

conviction to what you believe it one thing, but there is no certainty, so don't be dismissive or presumptive.

muscle96ss · Jul 3, 2008

rmnivs243 said:
again, your diagnosis of the situation, medicine and my background is incorrect

And what diagnosis would that be? I don't recall ever making a diagnosis; please re-read what I wrote as I simply asked the original poster for more information. Secondly, you state that my medical knowledge is incorrect. Please state 1 thing that is incorrect as you are the one that stated incorrect information that I specifically pointed out in my last post. Are you stating that I am incorrect when defining a muscle strain as being able to include the entire musculotendinous unit? Am I incorrect in stating that cortisone injections are done in joints and spaces and NOT in muscle bellies? You wrote, "cortisone is definitely advisable so long as you don't over-do it and listen to your body's cues." Please tell me where you are advising he put this cortisone?

rmnivs243 said:
if it it not a tendon injury, and is in fact a muscular strain, cortisone should be fine.

Since you stated that if indeed it is not a tendon injury but instead is a muscle strain(hmm what is that definition of muscle strain again?), then where should the injection be made and what purpose would it serve?

I know that your eager to help and trying to provide information that you feel is correct. However, my concern in this thread is that you have advised someone to consider something that is not only incorrect but could be potentially harmful. Your background is minimal, you are a 3rd year med student. I don't mean that to sound negative but you will learn later in life that you did not learn shit in school. It will not be until you are out in the field actually treating patients that you get the real knowledge.

jesse7159 · Jul 4, 2008

well guys when I hurt it again (then started this thread) I was doing rack deads with 585 no biggie and the bar usually drags up the bottom part of my quad to lock out. I hadnt gone that heavy in awhile. it felt fine after I did it but the next day it was pretty painful and limited flexibility. it feels similar to the muscular strain I have had near that location before but it seems lower towards my knee like RIGHT ABOVE my knee. so it may be a new injury im not 100% sure. If I put my finger at the very bottom of where my quad ties into my knee and press firmly its pretty painful. feels like a muscular strain but ive never strained a tendon of ligament before so I cant say if its muscular or not.

I thinks its awesome to have people to ask questions here that are educated. thanks guys. hopefully my above post gave you guys a better idea on whats goin on with me.

muscle96ss · Jul 4, 2008

jesse7159 said:
well guys when I hurt it again (then started this thread) I was doing rack deads with 585 no biggie and the bar usually drags up the bottom part of my quad to lock out. I hadnt gone that heavy in awhile. it felt fine after I did it but the next day it was pretty painful and limited flexibility. it feels similar to the muscular strain I have had near that location before but it seems lower towards my knee like RIGHT ABOVE my knee. so it may be a new injury im not 100% sure. If I put my finger at the very bottom of where my quad ties into my knee and press firmly its pretty painful. feels like a muscular strain but ive never strained a tendon of ligament before so I cant say if its muscular or not.

I thinks its awesome to have people to ask questions here that are educated. thanks guys. hopefully my above post gave you guys a better idea on whats goin on with me.

I would recommend finding a good orthopedic surgeon and getting some tests done; especially an MRI. From the info you have provided it definitely sounds like it is more involved than simply muscle tissue. When choosing a doc your best bet is to find who your local major sports teams use and go with them.

jesse7159 · Jul 4, 2008

muscle96ss said:
I would recommend finding a good orthopedic surgeon and getting some tests done; especially an MRI. From the info you have provided it definitely sounds like it is more involved than simply muscle tissue. When choosing a doc your best bet is to find who your local major sports teams use and go with them.

thanks bro ill lok into that. i dont have health insurance yet so that might fuck me.

bigdfk · Jul 4, 2008

jesse7159 said:
thanks bro ill lok into that. i dont have health insurance yet so that might fuck me.

uh... it probably will fuck you. I say why not give your quad a rest and do a contest some other time? If you seriously injure yourself and you don't have medical insurance, how do you expect to pay for surgeries and PT? It could be tens of thousands of dollars... seriously, get your priorities together man, this is a no brainer.

In my mind the priorities go:

1) health
2) family
3) financial security
4) a bunch of other stuff (time off work, whatever)
.
.
.
X) some amateur level body building competition

If you don't have insurance and can't afford to get your condition professionally diagnosed and treated, give your leg the time it needs to heal and don't risk a major injury.

jesse7159 · Jul 5, 2008

bigdfk said:
uh... it probably will fuck you. I say why not give your quad a rest and do a contest some other time? If you seriously injure yourself and you don't have medical insurance, how do you expect to pay for surgeries and PT? It could be tens of thousands of dollars... seriously, get your priorities together man, this is a no brainer.

In my mind the priorities go:

1) health
2) family
3) financial security
4) a bunch of other stuff (time off work, whatever)
.
.
.
X) some amateur level body building competition

If you don't have insurance and can't afford to get your condition professionally diagnosed and treated, give your leg the time it needs to heal and don't risk a major injury.

Alright thats pretty solid advice i guess i should have said i dont have insurance YET my bad. im in the process with a new job. im like 14 weeks out and ive been icing it every day its getting better all the time. did some light quad work last night and it didnt bother me at all. maybe I just bruised something when I drug the bar up my leg....?

flexmaster · Jul 5, 2008

my questions for you are...

do you have very mobile hips? for instance, when you squat, do your hamstrings touch your calves? do you have tight hip flexors? ankle or foot problems or injuries? what type of shoes do you wear during the day? what about to train in? are you doing dc training? i would bet your answer can be found through one of these questions.

edit: weren't you having problems squatting a while ago, and you were asking for help?

rmnivs243 · Jul 6, 2008

muscle96ss said:
And what diagnosis would that be? I don't recall ever making a diagnosis; please re-read what I wrote as I simply asked the original poster for more information. Secondly, you state that my medical knowledge is incorrect. Please state 1 thing that is incorrect as you are the one that stated incorrect information that I specifically pointed out in my last post. Are you stating that I am incorrect when defining a muscle strain as being able to include the entire musculotendinous unit? Am I incorrect in stating that cortisone injections are done in joints and spaces and NOT in muscle bellies? You wrote, "cortisone is definitely advisable so long as you don't over-do it and listen to your body's cues." Please tell me where you are advising he put this cortisone?

Since you stated that if indeed it is not a tendon injury but instead is a muscle strain(hmm what is that definition of muscle strain again?), then where should the injection be made and what purpose would it serve?

I know that your eager to help and trying to provide information that you feel is correct. However, my concern in this thread is that you have advised someone to consider something that is not only incorrect but could be potentially harmful. Your background is minimal, you are a 3rd year med student. I don't mean that to sound negative but you will learn later in life that you did not learn shit in school. It will not be until you are out in the field actually treating patients that you get the real knowledge.

school doesn't mean shit? cmon man, you just iced off an otherwise intelligent post with stupidity. i'm not a paramedic and maybe you missed my degree in exercise physiology. i deal with this a lot...athletes, bodybuilders, people who don't have medical or health training (or minimal training) who are really threatened by those of us who haven't garnered all of our information from the internet. i love listening to what other people say, think and do for their own bodies. however, when it comes down to it, people do learn things in school. i try to never bring up my degrees and knowledge because i too was an athlete and most athletes don't think of the 'science' when they are throwing a baseball or squatting 1000 pounds. your quick dismissal of my education just furthers my opinion that you are a moron.

rmnivs243 · Jul 6, 2008

jesse7159 said:
thanks bro ill lok into that. i dont have health insurance yet so that might fuck me.

hey man, unfortuantely looking for the team doctor for your local major sports team is not feasible. the reason why these guys are professional sports teams' doctors is because they are the best and most unavailable. you would likely be unable to get an appointment with any of them. this is just further proof that muscle66ss has no idea what he is talking about. where do you live? i know a lot of people in ortho and could likely set you up with a bunch of really good doc's (some of which will lower their rate if you don't have insurance.) but you will definitely need insurance for an MRI, they cost thousands.

muscle96ss · Jul 6, 2008

rmnivs243 said:
school doesn't mean shit? cmon man, you just iced off an otherwise intelligent post with stupidity. i'm not a paramedic and maybe you missed my degree in exercise physiology. i deal with this a lot...athletes, bodybuilders, people who don't have medical or health training (or minimal training) who are really threatened by those of us who haven't garnered all of our information from the internet. i love listening to what other people say, think and do for their own bodies. however, when it comes down to it, people do learn things in school. i try to never bring up my degrees and knowledge because i too was an athlete and most athletes don't think of the 'science' when they are throwing a baseball or squatting 1000 pounds. your quick dismissal of my education just furthers my opinion that you are a moron.

What I meant by "school doesn't mean shit"; is that you can read and become booksmart about anything; but actually using that information in the real world is completely different. I learned more in my first year out of school then I learned my entire undergrad and grad years combined. Of course you need the information you learned in your schooling as a base but I think you understand my point. Let me give you an analogy. You are trying to rebuild and engine. You read the instruction manual over and over. You have memorized all the parts and how they work and memorized all the steps of what to do. Do you really think you are going to know what to do when you then goto rebuild the engine? I am going to bet that the first time you rebuild that engine you are going to screw up royally. I am going to bet that you are going to make mistakes even after rebuidling several engines. Even down the road when you think you have it all down, there are still many shortcuts and better ways to do things and tons of things that you can learn to help make your rebuilds quicker and better. Therefore you may think of me as a "moron" as you stated; however years down the road after you have completed your schooling and are actually working with patients, when you look back on this and read the advice that you have given you will realize who the real moron is. In fact you still haven't answered a single one of the questions I asked you. If you want to call me a moron then at least answer my questions and prove that your knowledge is correct and mine is wrong. Also if you want to talk about backgrounds; when it comes to knees and shoulders on the local level and then some I am considered an expert in the field. Please understand, I personally don't consider myself an expert as I am a perfectionist and am nowhere near the level of my idols(i.e. Jimmy Andrews, Kevin Wilk, George Davies, etc...); but you are not talking with some internet dumbshit wannabe. So if you want to debate the facts then please answer those questions posed to you and teach me something.