LANTUS experiences

[marssel]

In the Luki thread and on Paul Barnett+Justin Harris's channel, one of the other things that offsets insulin resistance/promote sensitivity is resistance training itself. And it seems like higher volume training is more effective for this purpose than lower volume/higher intensity training.

I keep hearing mixed information about cardio's impact on insulin resistance. That Type II guy who's full name i don't remember seems to suggest it doesn't really help much, but idk.

Resistance training with high volume is best, all cardio helps but again high intensity is best for this whether it’s interval or for me just pushing all I got an hour on the stepmill fasted in the AM is magic.

 

[danieltx]

In the Luki thread and on Paul Barnett+Justin Harris's channel, one of the other things that offsets insulin resistance/promote sensitivity is resistance training itself. And it seems like higher volume training is more effective for this purpose than lower volume/higher intensity training.

I keep hearing mixed information about cardio's impact on insulin resistance. That Type II guy who's full name i don't remember seems to suggest it doesn't really help much, but idk.

Resistance training will help but not as much as modulating carb intake, modulating GH usage, some fasting, GW-501516, etc. The impact from resistance training seems to be more acute - you deplete yourself through a big training session and are primed to intake carbs immediately after.

 

[rainstony]

I donr really hear about fat consumption though, just carbs.

Isn't a high fat diet what actually largely contributes to the resistance itself as the fatty acids interfere with the cells response to insulin?

Shouldn't a low fat diet also contribute to increased insulin sensitivity.

 

[fredmac82]

Which would you use to increase insulin sensitivity and why? Metiform or Dihydroberberine?

 

[danieltx]

I donr really hear about fat consumption though, just carbs.

Isn't a high fat diet what actually largely contributes to the resistance itself as the fatty acids interfere with the cells response to insulin?

Shouldn't a low fat diet also contribute to increased insulin sensitivity.

A diet high in saturated fat can contribute to insulin resistance. But goods fats like omega 3 and 6 help insulin sensitivity.

Fats are an essential nutrient - if you want to grow as much as possible you need fats in your diet even if you're using insulin.

Which would you use to increase insulin sensitivity and why? Metiform or Dihydroberberine?

Metformin, it works on insulin sensitivity through multiple paths - https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(16)30437-5

 

[mslmn]

I went hypo on lantus today. It went like this:

6:45 wake up
7:00 shake with 8oz skim, 2 banananas, 80g oats, 2 scoops of BSN chocolate whey
7:10 40ius of lantus
7:40 uh oh I don't feel so good...
7:45 little bit hypo, take out some chocolates from my bag and slam them down while biking to work. It's only 5 little chocolate easter eggs
7:57 sweating profusely but not as hypo as I've been before on humalog, 5 flights of stairs is pretty tough when it's normally easy
8:00 chug down 600ml of orange juice I had in the work fridge
8:05 hypo symptoms subside.

Just how quick is the onset of lantus? It's active life is obviously long, but I've read it's onset can actually be pretty quick. If that's the case, is it actually kinda redundant to stack it with humalog?

I'm gonna start dosing AM+PM to avoid what happened this morning.

You might of hit it intravenously without realizing it.

 

[beast405]

I’m going to be using mike Arnold’s approach for Lantus in the fall when I bulk. High doses just on lagging body part days

 

[fredmac82]

A diet high in saturated fat can contribute to insulin resistance. But goods fats like omega 3 and 6 help insulin sensitivity.

Fats are an essential nutrient - if you want to grow as much as possible you need fats in your diet even if you're using insulin.


Metformin, it works on insulin sensitivity through multiple paths - https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(16)30437-5

Thank you. I am debating on whether to continue taking Metformin for insulin sensitivity reasons or change to Dihydroberberine

 

[TheRoid]

Just to be clear: I absolutely believe that Metformin can be very good for your overall health in many ways. Period.
Now, the use in Bodybuilding.
Metformin in a dose-dependent manner decreases glucose transport from the intestinal lumen into the blood. Considerably. You eat 400 grams of carbs, but that's FAR from what you're absorbing. I'd just eat less carbs and skip the damn GI distress that comes with said malabsorption.
Also, what concerns me big time is that at least a few studies demonstrate that insulin-stimulated glucose uptake is not augmented, but rather tends to be DIMINISHED in skeletal muscle from type 2 diabetic patients following metformin treatment . May or may not be extremely relevant for healthy active non-diabetic people, but still...
The glucose clearance can increase by up to ~75% (!!) in the intestine of acutely metformin-treated animals. This signifies that the intestine acts basically as a glucose sink following metformin treatment. Is this what we actually want?
Last, my own personal issue with it. No matter the dose or how slow my ramp-up dosing schedule is, I always get very loose stools that don't subside even after a whole month or more. Taken with or without food, and as low as 250mg/day.
Well there's no way I can look at that mess and think "it's all good, it's not severely impairing my other nutrients uptake".

 

[Hyperemia]

Thank you. I am debating on whether to continue taking Metformin for insulin sensitivity reasons or change to Dihydroberberine

I’ve been using Metformin for a while. Just switched it out for Dihydroberberine last night. Remind me in a week or so and I’ll let you know if it does a better job on keeping my fasting glucose at a reasonable level.

 

[fredmac82]

Just to be clear: I absolutely believe that Metformin can be very good for your overall health in many ways. Period.
Now, the use in Bodybuilding.
Metformin in a dose-dependent manner decreases glucose transport from the intestinal lumen into the blood. Considerably. You eat 400 grams of carbs, but that's FAR from what you're absorbing. I'd just eat less carbs and skip the damn GI distress that comes with said malabsorption.
Also, what concerns me big time is that at least a few studies demonstrate that insulin-stimulated glucose uptake is not augmented, but rather tends to be DIMINISHED in skeletal muscle from type 2 diabetic patients following metformin treatment . May or may not be extremely relevant for healthy active non-diabetic people, but still...
The glucose clearance can increase by up to ~75% (!!) in the intestine of acutely metformin-treated animals. This signifies that the intestine acts basically as a glucose sink following metformin treatment. Is this what we actually want?
Last, my own personal issue with it. No matter the dose or how slow my ramp-up dosing schedule is, I always get very loose stools that don't subside even after a whole month or more. Taken with or without food, and as low as 250mg/day.
Well there's no way I can look at that mess and think "it's all good, it's not severely impairing my other nutrients uptake".

That's valuable input. I had some of the same concerns with Metformin, which is why I was going to give Dihydroberberine a try. I am taking roughly 10IUs of GH and Slin so keeping insulin sensitivity high is a goal for me.

 

[fredmac82]

I’ve been using Metformin for a while. Just switched it out for Dihydroberberine last night. Remind me in a week or so and I’ll let you know if it does a better job on keeping my fasting glucose at a reasonable level.

I am thinking of making the same switch. I will check back with you in a week or so to hear your results.

 

[marssel]

I donr really hear about fat consumption though, just carbs.

Isn't a high fat diet what actually largely contributes to the resistance itself as the fatty acids interfere with the cells response to insulin?

Shouldn't a low fat diet also contribute to increased insulin sensitivity.

I’ve never heard it that way in fact loads of clean fats seem to be beneficial now if ur talking junk food fat I’m not sure

 

[Hyperemia]

, modulating GH usage

Hey Daniel, can you expand on that? Are running high and low days or are you cutting back for lengthier periods of time?

 

[TheRoid]

I’ve been using Metformin for a while. Just switched it out for Dihydroberberine last night. Remind me in a week or so and I’ll let you know if it does a better job on keeping my fasting glucose at a reasonable level.

Fasting glucose readings might be higher if you keep carbs intake the same simply because you're digesting them all (read post above).

 

[Ace0]

Do you guys lower your fat intake to trace amounts on Lantus days or is that old school approach not that common anymore?

 

[danieltx]

Just to be clear: I absolutely believe that Metformin can be very good for your overall health in many ways. Period.
Now, the use in Bodybuilding.
Metformin in a dose-dependent manner decreases glucose transport from the intestinal lumen into the blood. Considerably. You eat 400 grams of carbs, but that's FAR from what you're absorbing. I'd just eat less carbs and skip the damn GI distress that comes with said malabsorption.
Also, what concerns me big time is that at least a few studies demonstrate that insulin-stimulated glucose uptake is not augmented, but rather tends to be DIMINISHED in skeletal muscle from type 2 diabetic patients following metformin treatment . May or may not be extremely relevant for healthy active non-diabetic people, but still...
The glucose clearance can increase by up to ~75% (!!) in the intestine of acutely metformin-treated animals. This signifies that the intestine acts basically as a glucose sink following metformin treatment. Is this what we actually want?
Last, my own personal issue with it. No matter the dose or how slow my ramp-up dosing schedule is, I always get very loose stools that don't subside even after a whole month or more. Taken with or without food, and as low as 250mg/day.
Well there's no way I can look at that mess and think "it's all good, it's not severely impairing my other nutrients uptake".

Those studies means nothing when you're talking about PED-using bodybuilders with extreme amounts of muscle mass, insulin in play, insulin sensitizing agents in play, clean diets, etc. No we don't have studies on bodybuilders like that but the anecdotal reports from guys on here should alleviate concerns about using it as a bodybuilder.

Hey Daniel, can you expand on that? Are running high and low days or are you cutting back for lengthier periods of time?

I think it should be both. For example, on a training day you use 20IU of GH but on a rest day maybe it's only 8IU. And when you're cruising maybe it's 8IU on a training day and 4IU on a rest day. Impact on blood sugar from GH varies between individuals so a lot of it's trial and error. If I take 5IU GH in one shot it has no impact on blood sugar but if I do 10IU at once I need a little extra insulin to get blood sugar in range.

Do you guys lower your fat intake to trace amounts on Lantus days or is that old school approach not that common anymore?

Absolutely not. When using insulin your diet should primarily be protein and carbs but if you're serious about growing you need fats - they're an essential nutrient. Keep it to the good ones like omega 3/6/9, avocado oil, almond butter, etc.

 

[Hyperemia]

Fasting glucose readings might be higher if you keep carbs intake the same simply because you're digesting them all (read post above).

Absolutely. My plan is to change nothing and just swap the Metformin for Dihydroberberine just to see what my body reacts better to. If it’s the same or worse, I plan on stacking them at 1/2 doses initially and go from there. This is all just a bit of trial and error to see what works better for my body. I think this is a good time for this little experiment as my fasting glucose has crept up. After all is said and done, the plan is to do a mini cut it to get things back into reasonable numbers, assuming the above protocol doesn’t work.

 

[TheRoid]

Those studies means nothing when you're talking about PED-using bodybuilders with extreme amounts of muscle mass, insulin in play, insulin sensitizing agents in play, clean diets, etc. No we don't have studies on bodybuilders like that but the anecdotal reports from guys on here should alleviate concerns about using it as a bodybuilder.

It was mainly my  personal rant about what it does to me. Yeah, plenty of other factors in play for us.
Still, the persistent diarrhea I experience leads me to believe it interferes with nutrients assimilation in my case.

 

[TheRoid]

Absolutely. My plan is to change nothing and just swap the Metformin for Dihydroberberine just to see what my body reacts better to. If it’s the same or worse, I plan on stacking them at 1/2 doses initially and go from there. This is all just a bit of trial and error to see what works better for my body. I think this is a good time for this little experiment as my fasting glucose has crept up. After all is said and done, the plan is to do a mini cut it to get things back into reasonable numbers, assuming the above protocol doesn’t work.

Then if your fasting blood glucose has crept up recently, you may switch to a diet with a higher retrograded starch content (like rice and potatoes cooled for 24hrs after preparation and reheated before being served).
Resistant starch also acts as a prebiotic, as an added bonus.

​