Your cruise dose

[Big Dave Smith]

And for how long do you stay on a cruise normally?

Anywhere from 4-10 weeks.
This next round I’m looking at 6-8 weeks.
I’m getting my blood work at that date to see if I need to continue cruising. If everything is great, I’ll go back on shortly after.

 

[trackstar19]

Also to note

I mentioned RHR because I notice a gradual increase in RHR as doses climb and GH is introduced and increased.

At a dose of 300mg/wk, my RHR and blood pressure are higher than 150-200mg/wk, even with 40mg Telmisartan. Not out of the reference range, but higher than my personal standard.

Once I introduce anabolics, both slightly elevate.
Once GH is introduced, more elevation. (Highest)

You should know what your lowest/best possible baseline numbers are for blood markers, RHR, blood pressure, blood glucose, etc. Even if you’re within the reference ranges, you still might be higher than where your body would be in an ordinary health state.

The closer you can return to the “healthiest possible” and the longer you stay there, you’ll probably see more success on your next cycle and you’ll probably feel better overall in between.

Also- My lowest weight in the last 10 years has been upper 240’s while in contest prep. I currently hover between 250-275lbs depending on the goal, time of year, etc.

Once my RHR breaks 60 I start scaling things back. Ditto with BP getting over 130/70 range. Fortunately a low dose of metoprolol and nattokinase + other supps and I can keep it there even with GH/doses creeping up. It’s a hobby and I’m in my 30’s with health issues already - not worth the risk. If I was Jay Cutler 2.0 that would be another story, though.

 

[headtrainer]

I cruise on 500 mgs of test-e per week.

 

[SAVAGEPMHNP]

Also to note

I mentioned RHR because I notice a gradual increase in RHR as doses climb and GH is introduced and increased.

At a dose of 300mg/wk, my RHR and blood pressure are higher than 150-200mg/wk, even with 40mg Telmisartan. Not out of the reference range, but higher than my personal standard.

Once I introduce anabolics, both slightly elevate.
Once GH is introduced, more elevation. (Highest)

You should know what your lowest/best possible baseline numbers are for blood markers, RHR, blood pressure, blood glucose, etc. Even if you’re within the reference ranges, you still might be higher than where your body would be in an ordinary health state.

The closer you can return to the “healthiest possible” and the longer you stay there, you’ll probably see more success on your next cycle and you’ll probably feel better overall in between.

Also- My lowest weight in the last 10 years has been upper 240’s while in contest prep. I currently hover between 250-275lbs depending on the goal, time of year, etc.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience! The coach I’ve been working with the last several months has said this very same thing that we will “Clean out” after this prep which I’m assuming he means TRT dose and nothing else and that it will benefit my results once we ramp back up again for offseason. I’m not excited about doing it but your info definitely makes me feel more confident about it and that it’s the right thing to do!

 

[ALPHALIFEFITNESS]

200mg Cyp RX a week that I get from my Primary Care

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience! The coach I’ve been working with the last several months has said this very same thing that we will “Clean out” after this prep which I’m assuming he means TRT dose and nothing else and that it will benefit my results once we ramp back up again for offseason. I’m not excited about doing it but your info definitely makes me feel more confident about it and that it’s the right thing to do!

Most people think they need to stay on a minimum level of gear/Anabolics to maintain their muscle. It’s simply not true unless you’re at the pro level with less than pro genetics and you’re psychologically addicted to gear.

What seems to happen more is that you deflate. The contractile tissue is still there, but the cell volume isn’t. The fullness leaves for a variety of reasons.

Training stimulates the tissue to prevent catabolism. Keep enough food in and you’ll be totally fine.

If you do lose mass/weight, especially at a rapid pace, it’s either going to be from
1- Dropping off a cliff with calories and training
2- Cessation of drugs that gave you excessive fluid retention, giving you a false idea of losing muscle. If you’re on Test, Deca, and GH… you’ll notice more of a drop than if you stopped test/primo/mast and no GH.

 

[goback2013]

Most people think they need to stay on a minimum level of gear/Anabolics to maintain their muscle. It’s simply not true unless you’re at the pro level with less than pro genetics and you’re psychologically addicted to gear.

What seems to happen more is that you deflate. The contractile tissue is still there, but the cell volume isn’t. The fullness leaves for a variety of reasons.

Training stimulates the tissue to prevent catabolism. Keep enough food in and you’ll be totally fine.

If you do lose mass/weight, especially at a rapid pace, it’s either going to be from
1- Dropping off a cliff with calories and training
2- Cessation of drugs that gave you excessive fluid retention, giving you a false idea of losing muscle. If you’re on Test, Deca, and GH… you’ll notice more of a drop than if you stopped test/primo/mast and no GH.

Dave..

Do you cycle, increase your doses, to meet your bodybuilding/physique goals ?
Or does increasing your doses also enhance/improve your BJJ performance ?
The guys I talk to at my local gym do not use more than TRT doses. Beyond that
their BJJ performance suffers.
Of course you're a bodybuilder who is also a well qualified BJJ practitioner(??) so thats a big difference.. as I'm sure you adjust your BJJ training accordingly when
youre on cycle.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Dave..

Do you cycle, increase your doses, to meet your bodybuilding/physique goals ?
Or does increasing your doses also enhance/improve your BJJ performance ?
The guys I talk to at my local gym do not use more than TRT doses. Beyond that
their BJJ performance suffers.
Of course you're a bodybuilder who is also a well qualified BJJ practitioner(??) so thats a big difference.. as I'm sure you adjust your BJJ training accordingly when
youre on cycle.

I train/roll WAY better in TRT/low doses… but it’s hard to say because of my body weight. Some guys who start small (body weight) and add some mass with gear for BJJ might be so far from their genetic limit, it only helps.


In the 250’s, I’m a bad motherfucker.
In the 260’s, I’m a proficient black belt.
In the 270’s, I’m doing all I can to hide the insufficiencies. LOL

When cycling, I roll okay until 270+, but don’t feel or move exceptionally well.

When I go to TRT/cruise and/or I’m in the 250-258 range, I can train for 2 hours with high level guys and not be out of breath while training and not be beat up or sore after.

The wicked pump you get from gear can definitely be a bad thing if you’re trying to grapple for an hour at a shot.

 

[bbryan7419]

180/week Test C for me. I only run 200 test when cycling. Keeps my test level over 1000.

 

[romo]

180/week Test C for me. I only run 200 test when cycling. Keeps my test level over 1000.

I hear you. My 200 a week,,pluse my 100 deca,, has me at 1600,i need to back down some i believe.

 

[m87r]

Test 3-400 mg ew
GH 3-5 iu ed
Slin 10-12 iu pre wo (sometimes)

 

[Fleezy]

Most people think they need to stay on a minimum level of gear/Anabolics to maintain their muscle. It’s simply not true unless you’re at the pro level with less than pro genetics and you’re psychologically addicted to gear.

What seems to happen more is that you deflate. The contractile tissue is still there, but the cell volume isn’t. The fullness leaves for a variety of reasons.

Training stimulates the tissue to prevent catabolism. Keep enough food in and you’ll be totally fine.

If you do lose mass/weight, especially at a rapid pace, it’s either going to be from
1- Dropping off a cliff with calories and training
2- Cessation of drugs that gave you excessive fluid retention, giving you a false idea of losing muscle. If you’re on Test, Deca, and GH… you’ll notice more of a drop than if you stopped test/primo/mast and no GH.

Is there any evidence that coming off/going on trt will make your next blast better?

My experience was I would just regain what I lost, and progress from there - no real indication that the progress was any better than it would have otherwise been

 

[pickapeck]

Is there any evidence that coming off/going on trt will make your next blast better?

My experience was I would just regain what I lost, and progress from there - no real indication that the progress was any better than it would have otherwise been

Well Dave does it and he is hanging at 270 lean and on stage in the 240s. I'm pretty sure he wasn't that massive after 2 cycles.

 

[Mute]

250 Cyp

 

[bbryan7419]

Is there any evidence that coming off/going on trt will make your next blast better?

My experience was I would just regain what I lost, and progress from there - no real indication that the progress was any better than it would have otherwise been

I stay on low trt when I’m not on a cycle to avoid sides. Sure I could drop everything and do PCT to get my body to fully generate test again but at low dose test my body is still producing test I’m just adding a little to it. I feel so much better on low test than nothing at all. Even low test helps w recovery.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Is there any evidence that coming off/going on trt will make your next blast better?

My experience was I would just regain what I lost, and progress from there - no real indication that the progress was any better than it would have otherwise been

No, of course not.

Is there evidence that staying on more gear makes your next cycle better?

Is it likely that you’ll need to keep using more and more gear each cycle if you don’t return to normal levels? Yes, for a number of direct and indirect reasons.

I would hypothesize that it does allow you to reduce cardiovascular stress, along with a number of other stress factors associated with use. Like I stated above, my RHR and blood pressure are at personal bests on less. My sleep is better as well.

Coming off is entirely different that TRT. That’s an entirely different topic.

Getting down to stable levels of testosterone while maintaining the healthiest possible blood chemistry and physiology is almost certainly preferable to staying on low levels of gear.

 

[bbxtreme]

1- Dropping off a cliff with calories and training

This is where 99% of guys mess it up in my opinion. They drop down to cruise or do TRT and stop their diet that’s maintained their size. They’ll even train, but they throw their diet out the window.

 

[Hooligan76]

Been running TRT at 200mg Test-C a week for the last couple years, bumped it up to 300mg last week though to give a slightly higher dose cruise thru the end of the year a try to see how much difference it makes.

 

[Swifto]

I don’t consider it a cruise until all gear is out besides test.

Depending on how heavy my cycle was, no shots of any kind for 2 weeks.

Once the 2 weeks are up, it’s test only.

My options
1- True TRT cruise. 150-200mg/wk. Everything within reference ranges on blood test (around 150mg will do that for me). RHR at its lowest. Blood pressure at its lowest. Usually I do this after what I consider a heavy cycle, or after just being on for too many months (4-5 months or more)

2- Moderate cruise. 200-250mg/wk. Test might be in the 800-1000 range. Free test slightly out of range. RBC/hematocrit within range.

3- Aggressive cruise. 250-300mg/wk. Test is 1000-1300 ng/dL. RBC/hematocrit might be a point high, but still fine. Might add in some proviron for sex drive and 10mg Aromasin EOD to minimize estrogen. Around 300mg I look like I’m back on cycle, but not a big cycle.

Each option is sort of a judgement call.

GH is either 0-2iu for options 1+2.
GH is 3-4iu for option 3.

I won’t go back on cycle till blood is perfect.

I consider a cycle a thing above this.

What a fantastic post.

How do you incorporate your TRT dose with your diet phases?

For example, do you TRT/cruise when dieting, then ramp things up when bulking or during offseason, or vice versa?

 

[tren_plz]

This will come off as being a dick, but i'd really like to see some photos of ppl with these heavy as 'cruises'. No hate, i love gear too. Its fun! But some of these are down right alarming and none of you look like Luki...

I get it, you dont want to lose what you've worked for....I came off everything to get my Wife pregnant 6 months. When i got back on 300mg test it was like running my first cycle again.

@BDS pretty much spot on with my thoughts. Your body is going to respond best when its healthy. Its just like being insulin sensitive...could be bro science, but i've seen it first hand with my circle of friends.