ARB's (ex: Telmisartan) + SGLT2 (ex: Empagliflozin/Jardiance) are god's gift to bodybuilders

[nothuman]

At this point, it would be irresponsible for most bodybuilders, with few exceptions, not to use these if they cared about their health.

I see people looking for excuses not to take one of these, mentioning some one in a million rare side effects. Chances are you aren't going to be that rare case.

https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/S0735-1097%2824%2902777-3

Assessment of effects of combination of SGLT2 inhibitors... : Journal of Diabetology

dia, there is hardly any Indian study regarding their combined use. Therefore, with this in mind, the present study has been conceived and conducted in the southern part of West Bengal, India. Materials and Methods: A total of 279 patients of DKD were recruited from different private clinics in...

journals.lww.com

Combining renin-angiotensin system blockade and... : Journal of Hypertension

treated with vehicle, the angiotensin receptor blocker valsartan, the SGLT2 inhibitor empagliflozin, or their combination. Blood pressure (BP) was measured by telemetry. Results: Diabetes resulted in albuminuria, accompanied by glomerulosclerosis, without a change in glomerular filtration rate...

journals.lww.com

Combination Therapy of RAS Inhibition and SGLT2 Inhibitors Decreases Levels of Endotrophin in Persons with Type 2 Diabetes

We investigated for the first time the effect of combination therapy of renin–angiotensin system inhibition (RASi) and sodium–glucose co-transporter-2 inhibitors (SGLT2is) on endotrophin (ETP), a pro-fibrotic signaling molecule reflecting collagen type VI formation, measured in the plasma of...

www.mdpi.com

 

[JJT]

At this point, it would be irresponsible for most bodybuilders, with few exceptions, not to use these if they cared about their health.

I see people looking for excuses not to take one of these, mentioning some one in a million rare side effects. Chances are you aren't going to be that rare case.

https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/S0735-1097%2824%2902777-3

Assessment of effects of combination of SGLT2 inhibitors... : Journal of Diabetology

dia, there is hardly any Indian study regarding their combined use. Therefore, with this in mind, the present study has been conceived and conducted in the southern part of West Bengal, India. Materials and Methods: A total of 279 patients of DKD were recruited from different private clinics in...

journals.lww.com

Combining renin-angiotensin system blockade and... : Journal of Hypertension

treated with vehicle, the angiotensin receptor blocker valsartan, the SGLT2 inhibitor empagliflozin, or their combination. Blood pressure (BP) was measured by telemetry. Results: Diabetes resulted in albuminuria, accompanied by glomerulosclerosis, without a change in glomerular filtration rate...

journals.lww.com

Combination Therapy of RAS Inhibition and SGLT2 Inhibitors Decreases Levels of Endotrophin in Persons with Type 2 Diabetes

We investigated for the first time the effect of combination therapy of renin–angiotensin system inhibition (RASi) and sodium–glucose co-transporter-2 inhibitors (SGLT2is) on endotrophin (ETP), a pro-fibrotic signaling molecule reflecting collagen type VI formation, measured in the plasma of...

www.mdpi.com

Have you been on Jardiance? Is it not counter productive for bodybuilders specially considering the carb intake and insulin use?

Also have you looked in to DPP-4 inhibtors like Januvia sitagliptin?

 

[whacked]

Only reason I haven’t pulled the trigger on Jardiance is because I’m too flipping lazy to order it. Lol.

Any issues for low carb guys?

My interest is kidney-health and to help keep blood sugar in healthy ranges while on GH.

 

[aHarness]

At this point, it would be irresponsible for most bodybuilders, with few exceptions, not to use these if they cared about their health.

I see people looking for excuses not to take one of these, mentioning some one in a million rare side effects. Chances are you aren't going to be that rare case.

https://www.jacc.org/doi/abs/10.1016/S0735-1097%2824%2902777-3

Assessment of effects of combination of SGLT2 inhibitors... : Journal of Diabetology

dia, there is hardly any Indian study regarding their combined use. Therefore, with this in mind, the present study has been conceived and conducted in the southern part of West Bengal, India. Materials and Methods: A total of 279 patients of DKD were recruited from different private clinics in...

journals.lww.com

Combining renin-angiotensin system blockade and... : Journal of Hypertension

treated with vehicle, the angiotensin receptor blocker valsartan, the SGLT2 inhibitor empagliflozin, or their combination. Blood pressure (BP) was measured by telemetry. Results: Diabetes resulted in albuminuria, accompanied by glomerulosclerosis, without a change in glomerular filtration rate...

journals.lww.com

Combination Therapy of RAS Inhibition and SGLT2 Inhibitors Decreases Levels of Endotrophin in Persons with Type 2 Diabetes

We investigated for the first time the effect of combination therapy of renin–angiotensin system inhibition (RASi) and sodium–glucose co-transporter-2 inhibitors (SGLT2is) on endotrophin (ETP), a pro-fibrotic signaling molecule reflecting collagen type VI formation, measured in the plasma of...

www.mdpi.com

Been on 40mg telmi with 12.5mg Jardiance for a while now. No sides to speak of.

 

[bbxtreme]

For the average bodybuilder Jardiance is fine and will benefit most. Remember it’s indicated for blood sugar and heart failure.

Why? Because in laymen’s terms it pulls glucose and sodium from the kidney pathways. This allows both the kidneys and heart to function more efficiently.

Bodybuilders aim to store glucose/ glycogen. Will this very minor loss be notable or something you see? Very unlikely.

Should you take Jardiance if you don’t need it? Just like any other medication, probably not. Food, lifestyle, and arguably some supplements are preventative. Medications are there for just that- to medicate.

Bodybuilders push the limits with great and put their body through prolonged stress periods so if stats/markers start to rise after exhausting cardio, lifestyle, supplements and diet then you should consider these medications.

But if your sole purpose is to use these medications to blast more gear… you’re likely going in the wrong direction and that won’t end well.

Can there be a one off person who gets side effects? Sure. Just ask the one old lady who got rhabdomyolysis after switching beta blockers to Nebilivol. One doesn’t equal all though.

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211913215300024

 

[bbxtreme]

@nothuman apologies as I wasn’t trying hijack your thread with the above. The opposite, your post on here today motivated me to want to be more contributive and less cold. Lol

 

[Golden]

For the average bodybuilder Jardiance is fine and will benefit most. Remember it’s indicated for blood sugar and heart failure.

Why? Because in laymen’s terms it pulls glucose and sodium from the kidney pathways. This allows both the kidneys and heart to function more efficiently.

Bodybuilders aim to store glucose/ glycogen. Will this very minor loss be notable or something you see? Very unlikely.

Should you take Jardiance if you don’t need it? Just like any other medication, probably not. Food, lifestyle, and arguably some supplements are preventative. Medications are there for just that- to medicate.

Bodybuilders push the limits with great and put their body through prolonged stress periods so if stats/markers start to rise after exhausting cardio, lifestyle, supplements and diet then you should consider these medications.

But if your sole purpose is to use these medications to blast more gear… you’re likely going in the wrong direction and that won’t end well.

Can there be a one off person who gets side effects? Sure. Just ask the one old lady who got rhabdomyolysis after switching beta blockers to Nebilivol. One doesn’t equal all though.

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211913215300024

So jardiance prevents the storage of glucose? Not to clued up on it tbh. I have a friend who’s prescribed forxiga in the UK for heart failure

 

[aHarness]

So jardiance prevents the storage of glucose? Not to clued up on it tbh. I have a friend who’s prescribed forxiga in the UK for heart failure

Pretty much everything we take to improve insulin sensitivity prevents glucose absorption to a degree

For what it’s worth, when I switched from metformin to Jardiance I noticed no difference. I’m not noticeably flatter or anything of the sorts.

 

[bbxtreme]

So jardiance prevents the storage of glucose? Not to clued up on it tbh. I have a friend who’s prescribed forxiga in the UK for heart failure

Only in the kidneys. Not the muscle which is what bodybuilders focus is.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

For the average bodybuilder Jardiance is fine and will benefit most. Remember it’s indicated for blood sugar and heart failure.

Why? Because in laymen’s terms it pulls glucose and sodium from the kidney pathways. This allows both the kidneys and heart to function more efficiently.

Bodybuilders aim to store glucose/ glycogen. Will this very minor loss be notable or something you see? Very unlikely.

Should you take Jardiance if you don’t need it? Just like any other medication, probably not. Food, lifestyle, and arguably some supplements are preventative. Medications are there for just that- to medicate.

Bodybuilders push the limits with great and put their body through prolonged stress periods so if stats/markers start to rise after exhausting cardio, lifestyle, supplements and diet then you should consider these medications.

But if your sole purpose is to use these medications to blast more gear… you’re likely going in the wrong direction and that won’t end well.

Can there be a one off person who gets side effects? Sure. Just ask the one old lady who got rhabdomyolysis after switching beta blockers to Nebilivol. One doesn’t equal all though.

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211913215300024

Again, not to hijack the thread, but keeping in line with it, the bold above has me scratching my head as I see it more and more of this here lately, why take a medication if you don't need it, especially if's not not under doctor's orders.

 

[bbxtreme]

Again, not to hijack the thread, but keeping in line with it, the bold above has me scratching my head as I see it more and more of this here lately, why take a medication if you don't need it, especially if's not not under doctor's orders.

Because all most guys hear when they see this stuff is “if I take Jardiance I can blast more gear.”

Or they think it means they can be more lax with other areas of their lifestyle. I am not a fan of anyone using medications as crutches.

 

[nothuman]

Have you been on Jardiance? Is it not counter productive for bodybuilders specially considering the carb intake and insulin use?

Also have you looked in to DPP-4 inhibtors like Januvia sitagliptin?

I haven't had any problems making gains while taking 10mg.

I haven't heard of that one. I'll give it a look

My interest is kidney-health and to help keep blood sugar in healthy ranges while on GH.

Sounds good for you then

 

[nothuman]

Again, not to hijack the thread, but keeping in line with it, the bold above has me scratching my head as I see it more and more of this here lately, why take a medication if you don't need it, especially if's not not under doctor's orders.

Because we can reduce the damage done from taking steroids by taking it as a preventative. It’s no different than taking TUDCA or Ubiquinol, however, it’s more effective than both.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

Because we can reduce the damage done from taking steroids by taking it as a preventative. It’s no different than taking TUDCA or Ubiquinol, however, it’s more effective than both.

Read and understood.

The word "preventative" is the caveat here.

I see your point, taking supplements as a preventative is no different, correct, however, taking such a powerful prescription drug like Jardiance when it's not needed, was the reason for my post above.

I'm not debating the positive results or the reasons why your taking it or other people take it, I just don't like to take something if I don't need it, especially if my blood work, echo and other tests says I don't need to.

This is just me though.

 

[JJT]

Only in the kidneys. Not the muscle which is what bodybuilders focus is.

Would you say Jardiance is more advicebale for elevated BG from HGH use? Assuming steps, cardio are maxed out and still lean to prolong an off season?

Lantus low dose should being a last resort

 

[Stewie]

Only in the kidneys. Not the muscle which is what bodybuilders focus is.

Apparently skeletal muscle too.

Improvement of skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity by 1 week of SGLT2 inhibitor use

Background and Aims: It is currently unclear whether sodium–glucose co-transporter 2 (SGLT2) inhibitor administration can improve the insulin sensitivity as well as rapidly reduce plasma glucose concentrations in humans during the early phase of treatment initiation. This study aimed to...

ec.bioscientifica.com

 

[bbxtreme]

Apparently skeletal muscle too.

Improvement of skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity by 1 week of SGLT2 inhibitor use

Background and Aims: It is currently unclear whether sodium–glucose co-transporter 2 (SGLT2) inhibitor administration can improve the insulin sensitivity as well as rapidly reduce plasma glucose concentrations in humans during the early phase of treatment initiation. This study aimed to...

ec.bioscientifica.com

I hadn’t seen this. Thanks for the share. Now every bodybuilder isn’t going to want to use it. lol

Curious- what are your thoughts on it as someone with your medical knowledge for a bodybuilder?

 

[bbxtreme]

Would you say Jardiance is more advicebale for elevated BG from HGH use? Assuming steps, cardio are maxed out and still lean to prolong an off season?

Lantus low dose should being a last resort

I go in the order of diet, cardio, GDA supplements and then Jardiance.

If you’re using lantus to control BG you’d better be a monster national level competitor and just eating that much food IMO.

 

[Reno911]

Read and understood.

The word "preventative" is the caveat here.

I see your point, taking supplements as a preventative is no different, correct, however, taking such a powerful prescription drug like Jardiance when it's not needed, was the reason for my post above.

I'm not debating the positive results or the reasons why your taking it or other people take it, I just don't like to take something if I don't need it, especially if my blood work, echo and other tests says I don't need to.

This is just me though.

Think there are 2 school of thought here:

1. Don't take anything if it's not needed.

2. Take supps and Pharma meds prophylactically.

At age 50 I agree more with the later. This is because I want to keep "pushing" things a bit longer.

Now if a guy is 25 and will be done with super supps at age 35 then using items prophylactically is probably not needed. But.....to me it makes sense to prevent/minimize damage along the way especially if someone wants to make a "lifestyle" of it.

I am not saying it's smart or safe to use PED's as you get older but we are all "addicts" in a sense and if you are going to take compounds why not try to be as safe as possible while doing.

Along with my natural supps here is my Pharma support regimen:

40mg Telmisartan
5mg Cialis
10-12.5 Jardiance
5mg Crestor 2x/week
10mg Ezetimibe

 

[Stewie]

I hadn’t seen this. Thanks for the share. Now every bodybuilder isn’t going to want to use it. lol

Curious- what are your thoughts on it as someone with your medical knowledge for a bodybuilder?

I, like yourself would strategize in a more natural arena rather than pharmaceutical approaches out of the gates.

I wouldn't take an ACEi to enhance IGF-1. Even though it's been purported to increase IGF-1.