ARB's (ex: Telmisartan) + SGLT2 (ex: Empagliflozin/Jardiance) are god's gift to bodybuilders

[JJT]

I personally would not use it on a growth phase WITH insulin. Your goal is glycogen storage and you would be taking something that is trying to prevent that. The short time I tried it I was pissing like a race horse. Lol

For guys who don’t use insulin or if you’re cutting I think it can be beneficial as BG starts to climb. You just need to ensure you’re keeping electrolytes in and fluid intake high.

How about metformin?

 

[bbxtreme]

How about metformin?

If you have to use something while using insulin then Metformin would be a slightly better choice.

But IMO and @luki7788 can chime in here as well. In most cases when guys are needing meds on a growth phase while using insulin there should be no need for this if your diet and cardio are dialed in. And are supplementing GDA’s IF needed worse case.

Better said- your using insulin, the number one medication indicated for high BG. Why in the world would you need to stack metformin on-top of it. Most shouldn’t.

When I’m using heavier insulin in a progressive phase my A1C drops because my blood sugar stays lower overall.

 

[luki7788]

If you have to use something while using insulin then Metformin would be a slightly better choice.

But IMO and @luki7788 can chime in here as well. In most cases when guys are needing meds on a growth phase while using insulin there should be no need for this if your diet and cardio are dialed in. And are supplementing GDA’s IF needed worse case.

Better said- your using insulin, the number one medication indicated for high BG. Why in the world would you need to stack metformin on-top of it. Most shouldn’t.

When I’m using heavier insulin in a progressive phase my A1C drops because my blood sugar stays lower overall.

I agree and I will always be of the opinion that in 90% of cases only people who have problems with sugar are those who do not fully follow a clean diet, do not do regular cardio exercises (and not 15 minutes of walking at a lazy pace is not cardio) and do not train intensively enough

 

[JJT]

I agree and I will always be of the opinion that in 90% of cases only people who have problems with sugar are those who do not fully follow a clean diet, do not do regular cardio exercises (and not 15 minutes of walking at a lazy pace is not cardio) and do not train intensively enough

How much cardio do you think is beneficial in the off season for health/insulin sensitivity purposes? Cause you still might want use cardio as a tool when prep comes

 

[luki7788]

How much cardio do you think is beneficial in the off season for health/insulin sensitivity purposes? Cause you still might want use cardio as a tool when prep comes

with literally 1 exception, my clients do no less than 30 minutes 5x a week and 8000 steps a day (I'm not a big fan of counting steps but it's always a good monitor of daily activity)

 

[IFBBProDomCardone]

I agree and I will always be of the opinion that in 90% of cases only people who have problems with sugar are those who do not fully follow a clean diet, do not do regular cardio exercises (and not 15 minutes of walking at a lazy pace is not cardio) and do not train intensively enough

I WISH I CAN LIKE/LOVE THIS COMMENT A MILLION TIMES! YES!!!!!

 

[jaxino]

If you’re pushing gear hard, stressing your heart and kidneys while having rising BG and A1C levels, yes it can be beneficial for a bodybuilder at that level.

Well the most common cause of death among bodybuilders is some type of cardiovascular issue, and Empagliflozin has proven to be one of the best therapeutics to prevent such issues, so taking it as a preventative makes a ton of sense to me. It’s also been shown to be very effective at extending the lifespan of mice, who don’t typically die of cardiovascular issues (and this has been repeated three times), signaling other benefits (to be fair they tested Canagliflozin instead, but Empagliflozin has better human evidence).

Everything perfectly clear, not my case at all now.

 

[aHarness]

From my own experience I wouldn’t not run Jardiance during a growth phase. It’s somewhat counterintuitive because of the massive glucose disposal. You really want to be focused on a storage hormone like Slin and supplement with some Berberine when you outside the window. However during maintenance or a cut I find both of the above to be fantastic especially when running high GH.

I am actually on it (12.5mg) and have used it this push.

This was my fear; feeling flat, unable to carb up etc but honestly I haven’t noticed any difference as far as any of that. I will note this is with insulin use around training. I think that with the unnatural level of carbs we eat, GH/slin, AAS in the mix etc it’s going to out weight that possibility… but who knows really. We’ll never have studies on this just anecdote.

 

[dany23x]

with literally 1 exception, my clients do no less than 30 minutes 5x a week and 8000 steps a day (I'm not a big fan of counting steps but it's always a good monitor of daily activity)

what I've been doing for years, except for the steps, but for work I often find myself walking around and without paying attention I reach 6000/7000

the only exception is cardio which I do 60 minutes all year round, the side effect is to be at a competition BF all year round

 

[luki7788]

what I've been doing for years, except for the steps, but for work I often find myself walking around and without paying attention I reach 6000/7000

the only exception is cardio which I do 60 minutes all year round, the side effect is to be at a competition BF all year round

no hate, but I'm curious about your photos, even in PM if you don't want to post them publicly

 

[nothuman]

Almost forgot this one. SGLT2's increase magnesium levels (in T2 diabetics but probably also in healthy people)

Elevated serum magnesium associated with SGLT2 inhibitor use in type 2 diabetes patients: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials - PubMed

SGLT2 inhibitors marginally increased serum magnesium levels in type 2 diabetes patients indicating a drug class effect. Further investigations are required to examine the clinical significance of elevated magnesium levels in individuals with type 2 diabetes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Chipper Jones78]

Almost forgot this one. SGLT2's increase magnesium levels (in T2 diabetics but probably also in healthy people)

Elevated serum magnesium associated with SGLT2 inhibitor use in type 2 diabetes patients: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials - PubMed

SGLT2 inhibitors marginally increased serum magnesium levels in type 2 diabetes patients indicating a drug class effect. Further investigations are required to examine the clinical significance of elevated magnesium levels in individuals with type 2 diabetes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing pal.

Chip

 

[Fleezy]

But if your sole purpose is to use these medications to blast more gear

I thought that is why we use medication

 

[nothuman]

Applications of SGLT2 inhibitors beyond glycaemic control - Nature Reviews Nephrology

Here, the authors discuss the beneficial effects of sodium–glucose cotransporter 2 (SGLT2) inhibitors for a range of clinical outcomes beyond glucose lowering, including kidney and cardiovascular protection. They also discuss the need for implementation and adherence initiatives to help...

www.nature.com

Sodium–glucose cotransporter 2 (SGLT2) inhibitors reduce the risk of kidney disease progression in people with or without diabetes as well as the risk of acute kidney injury and hyperkalemia.
SGLT2 inhibitors reduce the risk of cardiovascular death and heart failure hospitalization among people with type 2 diabetes mellitus and have beneficial effects on key heart failure outcomes irrespective of diabetes status or left ventricular ejection fraction.
SGLT2 inhibitors modestly lower systolic and diastolic blood pressure without a significant increase in risk of hypotensive episodes and have modest benefits for weight loss.
Other benefits of SGLT2 inhibitors include improvements in liver outcomes in people with metabolic dysfunction-associated steatotic liver disease, reduced risk of symptomatic kidney stone events, improvements in anaemia outcomes and potential reductions in the risk of new-onset atrial fibrillation and new-onset diabetes.
SGLT2 inhibitors have a generally favourable adverse effect profile but are associated with increased risk of genital mycotic infections and a small increased risk of diabetic ketoacidosis; they should be used with caution in people with unstable volume status owing to the risk of hypovolemia.
Prescription of SGLT2 by clinicians and patient adherence are suboptimal despite strong evidence for the efficacy and cost-effectiveness of these therapies.

 

[nothuman]

Not a great paper here, but an interesting finding but people concerned there may be some sort of hidden performance hindering effect.

Effect of sacubutril/valsartan and dapagliflozin on athletic performance; Can the popular cardiac medications of recent years be used as doping agents?

Studies conducted in recent years have demonstrated the positive effects of sacubitril/valsartan and dapagliflozin on cardiac prognosis and performance. These drugs can potentially be abused as doping agents by professional athletes. In our study, we

essopenarchive.org

“In the study, the swimming performances of three groups of rats were evaluated by dividing them into control, sacubitril/valsartan and dapagliflozin groups. […] In the comparison of dapagliflozin and control groups, a statistical difference was observed starting from the 10th swimming session, and when the total and average swimming times were compared, the p values were <0.001 and <0.001. In triple analysis, a statistical difference was seen from the 9th swimming session until the end of the experiment. […] Our study showed a limited positive effect of sacubitril/valsartan on athletic performance. The impact of dapagliflozin on athletic performance was shown to be particularly significant.“

(They used Dapagliflozin and not Empagliflozin)

 

[nothuman]

Not a great paper here, but an interesting finding but people concerned there may be some sort of hidden performance hindering effect.

Typo. An interesting finding FOR* people who might be concerned

 

[scottmys]

nothuman - forgive my ignorance here, but wouldn't it be bad for bodybuilding to take a drug that makes you excrete glucose from some of the carbs you're eating? Isn't this "wasting carbs" vs. metformin which helps your body better deal with the carbs?

Maybe I don't understand how the excretion works...

 

[aHarness]

Isn't this "wasting carbs" vs. metformin which helps your body better deal with the carbs?

@nothuman correct me if I’m wrong but Metformin also “waste” carbs unfortunately as it’s going to hinder absorption/uptake of them to a degree. How much and would it even be be noticeable? Hard to say.

 

[nothuman]

nothuman - forgive my ignorance here, but wouldn't it be bad for bodybuilding to take a drug that makes you excrete glucose from some of the carbs you're eating? Isn't this "wasting carbs" vs. metformin which helps your body better deal with the carbs?

Maybe I don't understand how the excretion works...

It’s a good question and I don’t have the answer. The context in which I’m saying it’s good for bodybuilding is from a health standpoint to mitigate the deleterious effects of steroid use.

I don’t think it will make a big difference though. I’ve gained muscle on a blast while still using 10mg of Jardiance, the same way I’ve gained muscle while taking Metformin. I’d argue an AI has more of a negative effect on building muscle.