Is Hgh worth it for you ?

[Black Beard]

Really informative, thank you again.

Measured BG this morning post 45 mins cardio @ zone 3, and measured in at 4.1 (73ish). I'm going to continue to monitor BG every few mornings (pre and post cardio) moving forward, and see how the GH effects me this time around with daily cardio.

Regular cardio is a boon while using GH, as is staying relatively lean. (No higher than 15%). Both greatly improve insulin sensitivity. Being relatively muscular also helps.


A sedentary or higher body fat person will be more predisposed to the hyperglycemic/diabetogenic effects of growth hormone.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Regular cardio is a boon while using GH, as is staying relatively lean. (No higher than 15%). Both greatly improve insulin sensitivity. Being relatively muscular also helps.


A sedentary or higher body fat person will be more predisposed to the hyperglycemic/diabetogenic effects of growth hormone.

It's coming, I'm not where I want to be but it's coming.

Currently this is where I'm at:

AM Cardio: 30 minutes AM cardio the last 5 months - Just moved to 45 minutes with the GH this week.
PM Training: Usually 6 days a week, occasionally 5 or 7.

Diet: High protein, usually 6 days low carbs and one day moderate refeed of 300-500 CHO.

Sample yesterday:
Meal 1: Slow cooked beef 175g, Cauliflower 150g
Meal 2: Pork chops 175g, Sweetcorn 150g
PWO: 3 scoops whey + 200g egg whites
Meal 4: Chicken 175g, Sweetcorn 150g

251 PRO, 51 CHO, 70 FAT: 1914 CALS

AAS: 150mg Test E for the last 3-4 years, no GH - Just moved to 300mg this week with 2iu GH (pre-cardio).

I have competed before but many years ago. My plan is to be in shape for a holiday in March, if I can just manage to see this through. We'll see, admittedly I've found weekends and social occasions tough.

 

[Black Beard]

It's coming, I'm not where I want to be but it's coming.

Currently this is where I'm at:

AM Cardio: 30 minutes AM cardio the last 5 months - Just moved to 45 minutes with the GH this week.
PM Training: Usually 6 days a week, occasionally 5 or 7.

Diet: High protein, usually 6 days low carbs and one day moderate refeed of 300-500 CHO.

Sample yesterday:
Meal 1: Slow cooked beef 175g, Cauliflower 150g
Meal 2: Pork chops 175g, Sweetcorn 150g
PWO: 3 scoops whey + 200g egg whites
Meal 4: Chicken 175g, Sweetcorn 150g

251 PRO, 51 CHO, 70 FAT: 1914 CALS

AAS: 150mg Test E for the last 3-4 years, no GH - Just moved to 300mg this week with 2iu GH (pre-cardio).

I have competed before but many years ago. My plan is to be in shape for a holiday in March, if I can just manage to see this through. We'll see, admittedly I've found weekends and social occasions tough.

Switching to moderate carbs as you get leaner will help you stay there and helps with fullness and maintaining strength/muscle as you get leaner.

When you get very lean, your leptin levels drop like a rock and that's what causes metabolic slow downs, cravings and generally feeling like trash.

By upping the carbs, you artificially raise those leptin levels. Basically a signal to the body "We are not dying of starvation" which is what your body thinks when you lose a ton of body fat.


Genetics will dictate your sensitivity to this phenomenon ie the leptin "set point". Some guys are comfortable single digit body fat year round and others feel awful. You can tip the scales towards your favor by keeping carbs higher to keep leptin higher.


HGH will help a lot with staying lean and intermittent fasting is another toothat can improve insulin sensitivity and possibly leptin sensitivity.


Personally, cutting for me was always better when i would just drink black coffee for breakfast and put those breakfast calories into bigger more delicious meals for lunch and dinner. I've maintained my ideal physique now for years, so i havent cut in a long time. Sometimes i'll do a small "sharpening period" where i reduce cals a bit to get a tiny bit leaner.

 

[EnhancedFatGrappler]

I got a good source (RIP) with decent prices and each batch being tested by Janoshik, and got enough HGH to run one vial (13 iu) ED for a while. I started back in October, just 2 ius ED, and slowly went up by one 1iu every week. Oct+Nov was just on 250 Test. Got on a cycle starting December, which I will run until end of March (if all things progress well of course). I like how much I can sleep on it - 9 to 10 hours every night!, and how I need more kcals than I needed before, a very welcome effect. I'm a fat kid by heart, I'm always hungry, even on bulks. It is a bit of an investment, don't know if I will do it again, I'm saving for a house (which is impossible in this economy and the area I live in)

But I'm already looking forward to end of March. ED Injections suck, even if it is just Subq.

 

[bigzzz]

I got a good source (RIP) with decent prices and each batch being tested by Janoshik, and got enough HGH to run one vial (13 iu) ED for a while. I started back in October, just 2 ius ED, and slowly went up by one 1iu every week. Oct+Nov was just on 250 Test. Got on a cycle starting December, which I will run until end of March (if all things progress well of course). I like how much I can sleep on it - 9 to 10 hours every night!, and how I need more kcals than I needed before, a very welcome effect. I'm a fat kid by heart, I'm always hungry, even on bulks. It is a bit of an investment, don't know if I will do it again, I'm saving for a house (which is impossible in this economy and the area I live in)

But I'm already looking forward to end of March. ED Injections suck, even if it is just Subq.

Go for MWF injects then.

 

[fredmac82]

I got a good source (RIP) with decent prices and each batch being tested by Janoshik, and got enough HGH to run one vial (13 iu) ED for a while. I started back in October, just 2 ius ED, and slowly went up by one 1iu every week. Oct+Nov was just on 250 Test. Got on a cycle starting December, which I will run until end of March (if all things progress well of course). I like how much I can sleep on it - 9 to 10 hours every night!, and how I need more kcals than I needed before, a very welcome effect. I'm a fat kid by heart, I'm always hungry, even on bulks. It is a bit of an investment, don't know if I will do it again, I'm saving for a house (which is impossible in this economy and the area I live in)

But I'm already looking forward to end of March. ED Injections suck, even if it is just Subq.

Go for MWF injects then.

Agreed! Reserach shows MWF injections are just as good if not better than ED injections in someways. I would recommend you give MWF a try if you don't like ED injections.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Switching to moderate carbs as you get leaner will help you stay there and helps with fullness and maintaining strength/muscle as you get leaner.

When you get very lean, your leptin levels drop like a rock and that's what causes metabolic slow downs, cravings and generally feeling like trash.

By upping the carbs, you artificially raise those leptin levels. Basically a signal to the body "We are not dying of starvation" which is what your body thinks when you lose a ton of body fat.


Genetics will dictate your sensitivity to this phenomenon ie the leptin "set point". Some guys are comfortable single digit body fat year round and others feel awful. You can tip the scales towards your favor by keeping carbs higher to keep leptin higher.


HGH will help a lot with staying lean and intermittent fasting is another toothat can improve insulin sensitivity and possibly leptin sensitivity.


Personally, cutting for me was always better when i would just drink black coffee for breakfast and put those breakfast calories into bigger more delicious meals for lunch and dinner. I've maintained my ideal physique now for years, so i havent cut in a long time. Sometimes i'll do a small "sharpening period" where i reduce cals a bit to get a tiny bit leaner.

Quite exciting! I've had the best sleep in years this last week or so.

It's a bit of a struggle to get up and going in the morning, but I don't necessarily mind that and I'll adjust.

Very pleased.

 

[Black Beard]

Quite exciting! I've had the best sleep in years this last week or so.

It's a bit of a struggle to get up and going in the morning, but I don't necessarily mind that and I'll adjust.

Very pleased.

You running MWF AM or PM or daily injects? When i was a teenager, i had the same issue, really difficult to actually get up. It can be sleep inertia from very deep sleep.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

You running MWF AM or PM or daily injects? When i was a teenager, i had the same issue, really difficult to actually get up. It can be sleep inertia from very deep sleep.

I stuck to daily, I think your recommendation for MWF would work great but I figure if my BG remains in good shape I'll continue daily shots pre-cardio for now.

I actually quite like the sleepiness, I feel like I'm catching up on a decade of bad sleep.

 

[Black Beard]

I stuck to daily, I think your recommendation for MWF would work great but I figure if my BG remains in good shape I'll continue daily shots pre-cardio for now.

I actually quite like the sleepiness, I feel like I'm catching up on a decade of bad sleep.

Just remember, that you can (and often will be) insulin resistant even with perfect blood sugar readings on daily HGH injections. Your body will produce more insulin to compensate and keep the blood glucose in range, but you won't see that in a blood glucose or hba1c test. (only by testing before and after serum insulin).

For me, it presents itself as having less energy, less mental sharpness/memory, and mood not as good with daily GH long term.

 

[Hyperemia]

For me, it presents itself as having less energy, less mental sharpness/memory, and mood not as good with daily GH long term.

What’s your dose when these symptoms present themselves? Is it something you’re noticing on the lower end, 2-4 IU or higher dosing?

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Just remember, that you can (and often will be) insulin resistant even with perfect blood sugar readings on daily HGH injections. Your body will produce more insulin to compensate and keep the blood glucose in range, but you won't see that in a blood glucose or hba1c test. (only by testing before and after serum insulin).

For me, it presents itself as having less energy, less mental sharpness/memory, and mood not as good with daily GH long term.

Hmmm well now this is a thinker.

I honestly don't know what to do here. If you're suggesting I'm better off with a larger bolus MWF then I'll do that.

I'm in a deficit and will be for the next 3 months. Training and cardio 6 days a week. The goal is fat loss.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Just skimmed through the rest of this thread and your comments @Black Beard

It does seem for fat loss I'm probably best off sticking to ED doses. Perhaps I'll pivot to MWF when I'm bulking or maintaining.

Thank you again.

 

[Black Beard]

What’s your dose when these symptoms present themselves? Is it something you’re noticing on the lower end, 2-4 IU or higher dosing?

Happens eventually in the 2-5 IU range. I think most people just get used to it and don't realize they might not be at 100% , but when i skip days and/or switch to MWF, my cognition, mental/physical performance is noticeably better (with any brand of GH).


I've had several people thank me after they made the switch on my suggestion to MWF GH. It just "feels better" in terms of well-being and overall performance. For bodybuilding/fat loss, daily and multiple times daily is proven to be effective. I believe that's possibly why the olympian track and field HGH protocol was 4.5 IU MWF, since the insulin resistance and water retention from daily and higher doses is not conducive to optimal sports performance for competition and training (less energy / more water weight / etc).


This is more for HRT/Quality of life/Anti-aging (with the bonus of possibly being better for strength/muscle/etc). I've already achieved and maintain my ideal physique and look, i just want to look and feel awesome for as long as possible.

 

[goback2013]

Happens eventually in the 2-5 IU range. I think most people just get used to it and don't realize they might not be at 100% , but when i skip days and/or switch to MWF, my cognition, mental/physical performance is noticeably better (with any brand of GH).


I've had several people thank me after they made the switch on my suggestion to MWF GH. It just "feels better" in terms of well-being and overall performance. For bodybuilding/fat loss, daily and multiple times daily is proven to be effective. I believe that's possibly why the olympian track and field HGH protocol was 4.5 IU MWF, since the insulin resistance and water retention from daily and higher doses is not conducive to optimal sports performance for competition and training (less energy / more water weight / etc).


This is more for HRT/Quality of life/Anti-aging (with the bonus of possibly being better for strength/muscle/etc). I've already achieved and maintain my ideal physique and look, i just want to look and feel awesome for as long as possible.

Fucking aces Black Beard. I've also been researching your facial cream suggestions. Had lunch with a esthetician yesterday and we were going over some of the rx lists found on this site. She's very pro 'better living through chemistry' and is very familiar with what the affluent soccer moms(and dads) are taking these days.
And she fully agreed with you on what to apply and the 'ugly period' but after that you'll have a glowing complexion.
I'm finding as I continue to shed weight and look more aesthetic, more and more people ask about daily my routine. Both physical and pharmacuitcal. I met this one esthetician same way at the gym. she commented about my dedication to the stairs and how she appreciates the discipline and resulting look.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I think for general keeping the skin youthful 1 us is enough. In studies, it shows 1.5 is optimal for fatloss, at one shot. Taken multiple times per day more than likely is more beneficial. Ive done 1-1.5 ius for a couple years now, mainly 1 iu daily. I nfeel it has helped skin appear more youthful. Since three weeks since National championships, Dec 9th, ive started 1.5 x 2=3 ius daily, well skipped a couple days, but thinking of maybe 4 .5 ius eod or on certain resistance exercise days and 1-2 ius eod, or something like that.

As can see growth hormone does change the face in adolestants https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17090153/ and seems to in adults, over a certain dose. At what dose does it do this because Jay Cutlers face looks like it has. Milos, not so much. Although I could be incorrect, it seems it effects more caucasian guys that tend to have that look . Dorians has seemed to go down, over the years, maybe. Ronnies was never too much, although his face did change in his bodybuilding prime, whether that was gh related or gear related , or gh related some. It has to be dose dependent. There was a podcast I listened to two days ago a guy saying he uses 18 ius and his made his junk grow, it was the biggest hes measured. I dont think id use no way this high for fear of negative effects, no matter if itd make junk grow or not.

* Remember from experience not all gh is equal , simply degraded, less potent, and some is superior than others due to how its been handled, heat conditions. *

What pure gh iu dose does the face become more acromegalic, or Andre the giant like?

 

[Black Beard]

I think for general keeping the skin youthful 1 us is enough. In studies, it shows 1.5 is optimal for fatloss, at one shot. Taken multiple times per day more than likely is more beneficial. Ive done 1-1.5 ius for a couple years now, mainly 1 iu daily. I nfeel it has helped skin appear more youthful. Since three weeks since National championships, Dec 9th, ive started 1.5 x 2=3 ius daily, well skipped a couple days, but thinking of maybe 4 .5 ius eod or on certain resistance exercise days and 1-2 ius eod, or something like that.

As can see growth hormone does change the face in adolestants https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17090153/ and seems to in adults, over a certain dose. At what dose does it do this because Jay Cutlers face looks like it has. Milos, not so much. Although I could be incorrect, it seems it effects more caucasian guys that tend to have that look . Dorians has seemed to go down, over the years, maybe. Ronnies was never too much, although his face did change in his bodybuilding prime, whether that was gh related or gear related , or gh related some. It has to be dose dependent. There was a podcast I listened to two days ago a guy saying he uses 18 ius and his made his junk grow, it was the biggest hes measured. I dont think id use no way this high for fear of negative effects, no matter if itd make junk grow or not.

* Remember from experience not all gh is equal , simply degraded, less potent, and some is superior than others due to how its been handled, heat conditions. *

What pure gh iu dose does the face become more acromegalic, or Andre the giant like?

The problem is that if you are past 50 and not making much, 1 IU is not enough. Generally, you want to be pumping out around 2 IU per day, be that via replacement or combination of endogenous production. You want that IGF-1 at or over 200 ng/mL. Past 30 years old, you start seeing decline under 200 ng/mL which just so happens when you slowly start to get decrease in performance and many guys start the balding/thinning process at the same age.


1 IU can be enough when it adds to your own endogenous production which happens often at lower dosages. The IGF-1 test is a useful marker for titrating dosage.


Avoiding acromegaly; what might help with that question is keeping in mind the physiological range in healthy humans is 2-5 IU depending on decade of life. Teens generally hit 5 IU and that's only for a few years. Once you go past 5 IU, you can really feel and see side effects exponentially increase (makes sense since our bodies are not designed to run these GH numbers all the time, especially for many years).

 

[bigzzz]

Happens eventually in the 2-5 IU range. I think most people just get used to it and don't realize they might not be at 100% , but when i skip days and/or switch to MWF, my cognition, mental/physical performance is noticeably better (with any brand of GH).


I've had several people thank me after they made the switch on my suggestion to MWF GH. It just "feels better" in terms of well-being and overall performance. For bodybuilding/fat loss, daily and multiple times daily is proven to be effective. I believe that's possibly why the olympian track and field HGH protocol was 4.5 IU MWF, since the insulin resistance and water retention from daily and higher doses is not conducive to optimal sports performance for competition and training (less energy / more water weight / etc).


This is more for HRT/Quality of life/Anti-aging (with the bonus of possibly being better for strength/muscle/etc). I've already achieved and maintain my ideal physique and look, i just want to look and feel awesome for as long as possible.

To be honest I also felt and looked better when I did 10/15iu(so a whole vial) MWF. So not only for anti aging.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

The problem is that if you are past 50 and not making much, 1 IU is not enough. Generally, you want to be pumping out around 2 IU per day, be that via replacement or combination of endogenous production. You want that IGF-1 at or over 200 ng/mL. Past 30 years old, you start seeing decline under 200 ng/mL which just so happens when you slowly start to get decrease in performance and many guys start the balding/thinning process at the same age.


1 IU can be enough when it adds to your own endogenous production which happens often at lower dosages. The IGF-1 test is a useful marker for titrating dosage.


Avoiding acromegaly; what might help with that question is keeping in mind the physiological range in healthy humans is 2-5 IU depending on decade of life. Teens generally hit 5 IU and that's only for a few years. Once you go past 5 IU, you can really feel and see side effects exponentially increase (makes sense since our bodies are not designed to run these GH numbers all the time, especially for many years).

Of course its genetic, like testosterone levels. Some people stop making earlier, some later. I could be wrong but theorized taller people in general, produce more, and can go longer without natural gh declining. As you say igf-1 test. Some still pumping out good at forty years old , some not. Everyone says thirty but I think Forty is the ideal age for most to start. Again, testing igf-1. I've seen conflicting data. How come many clinics give scripts for less than 1 iu per day?

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

To be honest I also felt and looked better when I did 10/15iu(so a whole vial) MWF. So not only for anti aging.

what effects did you notice at 10-15 ius vs 5 or lower?