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Can telemarsan cause to much potassium, yes. But we drink a gallon or more water a day and sweat a lot. I doubt it's even an issue for us. I don't go out of my way to supplement K (ill eat a banna or Avocado if cramps come on from working hard in the heat) but I don't avoid it. My blood work always comes back in range.
He didn’t have any kidney issues before starting. My point was that using the SGLT2 inhibitor has had no negative effect on his kidneys
ok I misread you. Thought you meant he had poor kidneys to begin with.
yes EF is fine but borderline according to doctor and I don't want it to get worse. I feel fine, I rather think about the future.
Totally understand where you’re coming from. I’m getting my annual echocardiogram in two weeks, but as of last year, my EF is 60% but I also have mild heart hypertrophy. I am on 40mg Telmisartan and 5mg Nebivolol as well, with 10mg Jardiance (which my cardiologist agreed to prescribe for me when I told him I was already taking it).
I do, currently between 4-5g/day depending on the day. Pulled labs on friday so we will see. My point was if I have to ALREADY add salt to everything, including homemade salt caps, then there is no way FOR ME, taking anything that would further increase my need would be of value to me.
Empagliflozin and serum potassium in heart failure: an analysis from EMPEROR-Pooled
Hyperkalaemia frequently leads to interruption and discontinuation of neurohormonal antagonists, which may worsen heart failure prognosis. Some studies suggested that sodium-glucose cotransporter 2 inhibitors reduce hyperkalaemia, an effect that may have important ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
…. Any reason you don’t just increase your sodium intake?
If it’s low, INCREASE. Not just consume. If fluid intake is high and you are very active 4-5g may not be enough.
I'm not a moron. 4-5g of sodium is roughly 15,000mg of salt, its not a small amount. I only eat once or twice a day at the moment. I make everything from scratch so I add salt and you can only add so much salt before your meal becomes trash. On days I am still objectively low, despite my food intake, electrolyte drinks, I will occasionally add some salt caps. I have been "in range" for the last two years on my labs for sodium, it was low and I corrected it.
No, I don't think so. I think people who call them God's gift to bodybuilders and present them as risk-free are, though.You could be doing harm here by saying SGLT2’s are bad for kidneys. There are people here who think of you as an authority figure but they will really hurt themselves if they’re concerned about their kidneys and they decide NOT to take Jardiance or another SGLT2. You would be doing a service to yourself and the bodybuilding community if you issued a correction. It would also show a sign of strength on your part for being humble enough to do so.
This is straight from the national kidney foundation’s web site
“SGLT2 inhibitors are effective at slowing the progression of kidney disease, reducing heart failure, and lowering the risk of kidney failure and death in people with CKD and type 2 diabetes. SGLT2 inhibitors also protect the kidneys in people with CKD who do not have diabetes”
Sodium-glucose cotransporter-2 (SGLT2) inhibitors
www.kidney.org
Renal Protection with SGLT2 Inhibitors: Effects in Acute and Chronic Kidney Disease
This review offers a critical narrative evaluation of emerging evidence that sodium-glucose co-transporter-2 (SGLT2) inhibitors exert nephroprotective effects in people with type 2 diabetes.The SGLT2 inhibitor class of glucose-lowering agents has recently ...
As for hypotension and increased LDL: Again, rare side effects and very minor effects
See the link above. BP above 120/80 doesn't indicate for ARB/ACE inhibitors, but the point at which BP does call for these drugs is given. So, no, I'd never take any of these drugs < 120/80 for scant benefits, since there basically aren't any relevant in man.
I’m curious to see how you connect the dots to show an ARB decreases hypertrophy. After this I have an idea of where you’re going with the argument.
However, the basis for that would be a second hand hypothesis or a theory unless there is a direct study showing this, which there is not to my knowledge. The opposite actually as it was directly tested in elderly patients and found to have no benefit one way or another.
Source:
Effect of Angiotensin System Inhibitors on Physical Performance in Older People – A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Preclinical and observational data suggest that angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEi) and angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) may be able to improve physical performance in older people via direct and indirect effects on skeletal muscle. We ...
Even if there as a direct impact on hypertrophy from using an ARB, the data on the pro’s would out weigh the con’s. I.e. if there was a 2% decrease in hypertrophy would you ever see or notice it? No. But would you have a healthier bodybuilder resulting in more muscle mass overall given all the benefits? Absolutely.
I could on and I respect your dedication to research, but the last thing we want to be doing in bodybuilding is steering people away from beneficial medications who need them due to second or third hand hypotheses.
Better said- if you’re coaching a national level competitor who’s maxing out their weight, gear, etc. Surely you would not forgo the use of an ARB over this.
Just my opinion and thoughts on it all as sometimes we can lose ourselves in the research and forget real life application.
Fair enough. I respect anyone trying get paid for what they're good at and am always open to learning new research and seeing validated studies.
LOL
Hahah I almost asked who VB was until I recognized the reference. No, bro. No paywalls or basic cowardice.Fair enough. I respect anyone trying get paid for what they're good at and am always open to learning new research and seeing validated studies.
Just don't go turning into the next VB on us.
You can’t only be data driven when it fits your bias. Otherwise, you’d present counter data, wouldn’t you?
Higher than 120/80 is grade 1 hypertension, so yes it should necessitate Telmisartan if lifestyle changes can’t bring it down.
