Is Anadrol toxicity overblown and a myth?

[Massive G]

He outlined what he did with Vicky Gates, using 50mg Anadrol per day only for her cycle, in his Dirty Dieting Newsletter.

I think one thing people also have to remember back during that time in the 90's, was that accessibility was not what it is today. Buying pharm grade products was a crapshoot at times, and not always cheap. Mexico had a lot of stuff, but it was not always reliable on the actual dosing in each product, especially the quality for a woman to trust....unless it was like the 50mg amps of Primo, Sustanon, Primoteston 250, Halo, and a few other items. I can't remember what Anadrol brand she took, i'm not sure if he mentioned it, but this may have been when he had the newer Mexican Syntex pink Anadrols tested in 1997. Myself and a few others had been using them since fall of 1994, but they did not gain a lot of popularity until a year or two after, and then when he tested them in 1997, the price skyrocketed and they were in super high demand. I know he tested them though, and now i wonder if he did that because Vicky was going to take them....assuming they were the same ones she took. She may have used the USA Anadrol or international though...who knows, lol.

Sorry just speaking out loud trying to think back during that time period.

Yea Syntex took drol off the market in 1993 in the US. We were limited to what we could get back then. My first taste of drol was hemogen ? In 1997.

Also used Korean anadrol Han Seo. Later on would be Anapolon from turkey. All was hit or miss back then you sent money global priority mail and prayed it came through. I thought they brought back Anadrol for AIDS patients when they brought BTG anavar back in the late 1990s.

I tried some injectable anadrol a few years ago but it was unusable as it was crystallized even after heating and would clog an 18 g needle couldn't even get it into a gel cap so it went in the trash.

 

[jaxino]

It's not necessarily a fact no matter who said it. All they are are individual anecdotes. I've seen plenty guys here say they prefer Dianabol injectable.

Speaking of longer cycles, remember the member who's been on 100mg of drol for 25 years straight?

I remember of @ergo , he used Anadrol at 100mg daily for a 25y years and his bloods were always good.

 

[Parabolic33]

Anadrol is probably the most popular compound that I’ve technically tried a few times, since I own a good amount of it, that I’ve hardly actually used.

Maybe 3-4 times I’ve tried it as single dose pre workout, oral or sublingual, never more than 50mg per time. And since I get an immediate weight gain effect from it, I’ve tried adding it in at the end of cutting during a carb up and couldn’t make it more than 2 days in at 50-75 mg per day doses as separate 25 mg doses with meals on the carb up without getting sick to my stomach- beyond heart burn, and actually threw up when trying to get down a good amount of carbs. Woke up coughing In my sleep because threw up slightly later that same night too.

When I’d done just a single dose pre workout, I’d notice even after that getting more heartburn and indigestion the next few days proceeding.

So yea me and Anadrol don’t get along unfortunately because it makes me blow up noticeably, and gives me a very noticeable strength boost taken pre workout. I actually noticed the strength boost better when i swallowed them compared to taking them sublingual. Allegedly this might be due to the main metabolite Mestanolone being very similar to DHT, and you’d get this metabolite to be produced quicker if you send the Anadrol through the liver on the first pass through the stomach.

This is the only oral I’ve taken where I noticed a stronger effect or even a difference in effect between oral and sublingual administration routes.

I get on fine with every other popular oral, though I’ve never taken dbol before. I’ll get noticeably more heartburn slightly from any oral even sublingual Anavar after a week or two. But it sort of just stays there and doesn’t seem to get worse.

And go figure, with wisntrol, I’ve actually had the least amount of side effects from this and it’s also the one I’ve run the longest for around 8-10 weeks at 50mg per day split am/pm if sublingual. Or once per day 50mg when using winny suspension. I dilute it in L-Carnitine which I’m taking anyways if I’m using winny.

 

[marssel]

I've yet to try but I remember Duchaine saying 50mg injected is like 150mg oral lol. Recently asked a local dealer about it and his supplier supposedly said, "I wont carry it, it will kill you!" Lol some complete moron.

Dan was prolly referring to Reforvet-B which is no longer around and was water based, all the inj. I see these days are oil based and just don’t hit like the old R-B did IMO.

 

[KillerStack]

Anadrol is probably the most popular compound that I’ve technically tried a few times, since I own a good amount of it, that I’ve hardly actually used.

Maybe 3-4 times I’ve tried it as single dose pre workout, oral or sublingual, never more than 50mg per time. And since I get an immediate weight gain effect from it, I’ve tried adding it in at the end of cutting during a carb up and couldn’t make it more than 2 days in at 50-75 mg per day doses as separate 25 mg doses with meals on the carb up without getting sick to my stomach- beyond heart burn, and actually threw up when trying to get down a good amount of carbs. Woke up coughing In my sleep because threw up slightly later that same night too.

When I’d done just a single dose pre workout, I’d notice even after that getting more heartburn and indigestion the next few days proceeding.

So yea me and Anadrol don’t get along unfortunately because it makes me blow up noticeably, and gives me a very noticeable strength boost taken pre workout. I actually noticed the strength boost better when i swallowed them compared to taking them sublingual. Allegedly this might be due to the main metabolite Mestanolone being very similar to DHT, and you’d get this metabolite to be produced quicker if you send the Anadrol through the liver on the first pass through the stomach.

This is the only oral I’ve taken where I noticed a stronger effect or even a difference in effect between oral and sublingual administration routes.

I get on fine with every other popular oral, though I’ve never taken dbol before. I’ll get noticeably more heartburn slightly from any oral even sublingual Anavar after a week or two. But it sort of just stays there and doesn’t seem to get worse.

And go figure, with wisntrol, I’ve actually had the least amount of side effects from this and it’s also the one I’ve run the longest for around 8-10 weeks at 50mg per day split am/pm if sublingual. Or once per day 50mg when using winny suspension. I dilute it in L-Carnitine which I’m taking anyways if I’m using winny.

Victor Black is probably right, where is the proof orals are absorbed effectively sublingually anyway? Victor mentioned something about lipophilicity or hydrophilicity, didn't even read the post completely lol. And if it does at what percentage? I've seen some people using sublingual for a bunch of different drugs, and they sit there for an hour so it absorbs lol. Maybe steroids would need a special carrier, cyclodextrin maybe, maybe even make the powder into nanoparticles. I'm not a chemist so I don't know but I never thought it would work with crushed up tablets. Maybe intranasal would be ideal for neural/instant effects like the Germans did with androstenedione. I'm sure there's guys here who know about this stuff. There's a 1-Test dropper sublingual pro hormone made I think, maybe it works if it's nanoparticles as claimed.

 

[Parabolic33]

Victor Black is probably right, where is the proof orals are absorbed effectively sublingually anyway? Victor mentioned something about lipophilicity or hydrophilicity, didn't even read the post completely lol. And if it does at what percentage? I've seen some people using sublingual for a bunch of different drugs, and they sit there for an hour so it absorbs lol. Maybe steroids would need a special carrier, cyclodextrin maybe, maybe even make the powder into nanoparticles. I'm not a chemist so I don't know but I never thought it would work with crushed up tablets. Maybe intranasal would be ideal for neural/instant effects like the Germans did with androstenedione. I'm sure there's guys here who know about this stuff. There's a 1-Test dropper sublingual pro hormone made I think, maybe it works if it's nanoparticles as claimed.

In my experience, there are some formulations that dissolve under my tongue completely within 10-15 mins. I know because that’s the time it take to drive to the gym and I’ll take it before.

I have to wait like 10-15 min after eating for my mouth to not just fill with spit and make it so most of it is just swallowed.

And Anavar or SuperDrol have very noticeable effect taken pre workout on strength, so when I take those sublingual, they’re very effective. I don’t swallow at all with those, and there is nothing there that’s visible by the 10-15 min.

Idk if I can mention a source, but there is one that sells their orals in capsules, and inside them it’s almost like sweet pop rock like candy that dissolves quickly.

Anadrol though specifically I think must have some metabolite you don’t get as much of when I take it sublingual. Maybe it’s how the pill is prepared that I have, but it also does dissolve fully and quickly.

 

[Type-IIx]

Sublingual delivery requires cyclodextrin or a similar formulation that you can't accomplish without a laboratory and sophisticated equipment.

AAS are nonpolar (lipophilic), and so they are not soluble in the saliva of the oral mucosa without chemical modification.

While it is true that sublingual delivery through the oral mucosa avoids the first pass hepatic metabolism, it is unlikely that the active AAS, as one in practice without specialized formulation for adequate sublingual delivery, is delivered in any manner other than this classical route in practice (basically, you just end up swallowing the shit).

I've written the following on this topic elsewhere: "While delivery through the oral mucosa avoids the first pass hepatic metabolism and absorption through the GI tract, (i) the metabolism of 17AA (oral) androgens occurs primarily in the liver; (ii) bioavailability is essentially 100%; (iii) there is rapid absorption by the traditional route; and (iv) there is negligible justification based on reduced hepatotoxicity, since first pass is a "mere blip" for 17AAs - the liver's rate of blood flow is ~1 L/m and 17a-alkylation confers half-lives in the order of hours with a relatively low Vd (volume of distribution), thus the liver is exposed to high concentrations of the parent androgen regardless of sublingual delivery (this applies as well to "injectable orals")."

And then, cyclodextrin-based T formulations, while experimented with, are not commercially available (you might find testosterone suspensions from compounding pharmacies that suggest the sublingual route, but these will be largely ineffective) because of their impractical administration frequencies and abysmal bioavailability. You have to take these 3X daily due to a ~1 hr half-life, and this results in a mere 1/4 (25%) the AUC versus a weekly injection of testosterone enanthate/cypionate.

 

[KillerStack]

Thanks Type-IIx.

There's the buccal testosterone pellet. How much do they even get across? 10%?
The there's the Natesto nasal spray. Maybe that would be viable for very low dose stuff.

I think Victor had started berating that Greekl doc, Tatsulianos something for recommending Proviron sublingually. "Where is the proof you idiot!" I imagine him saying Lol.

 

[Parabolic33]

Sublingual delivery requires cyclodextrin or a similar formulation that you can't accomplish without a laboratory and sophisticated equipment.

AAS are nonpolar (lipophilic), and so they are not soluble in the saliva of the oral mucosa without chemical modification.

While it is true that sublingual delivery through the oral mucosa avoids the first pass hepatic metabolism, it is unlikely that the active AAS, as one in practice without specialized formulation for adequate sublingual delivery, is delivered in any manner other than this classical route in practice (basically, you just end up swallowing the shit).

I've written the following on this topic elsewhere: "While delivery through the oral mucosa avoids the first pass hepatic metabolism and absorption through the GI tract, (i) the metabolism of 17AA (oral) androgens occurs primarily in the liver; (ii) bioavailability is essentially 100%; (iii) there is rapid absorption by the traditional route; and (iv) there is negligible justification based on reduced hepatotoxicity, since first pass is a "mere blip" for 17AAs - the liver's rate of blood flow is ~1 L/m and 17a-alkylation confers half-lives in the order of hours with a relatively low Vd (volume of distribution), thus the liver is exposed to high concentrations of the parent androgen regardless of sublingual delivery (this applies as well to "injectable orals")."

And then, cyclodextrin-based T formulations, while experimented with, are not commercially available (you might find testosterone suspensions from compounding pharmacies that suggest the sublingual route, but these will be largely ineffective) because of their impractical administration frequencies and abysmal bioavailability. You have to take these 3X daily due to a ~1 hr half-life, and this results in a mere 1/4 (25%) the AUC versus a weekly injection of testosterone enanthate/cypionate.

Anecdotally the evidence is easily strong enough that this works in my personal opinion. I don’t doubt cyclodextrin would help though. But because the effect of the drugs is so easily recognizable, and we all know what they feel like, and the fact that the drugs in their pure form are taken in the 20-100+ mg range, and they fully disappear with no swallowing at all, and dissolve fully relatively quickly, this says to me that there is some way they’re dissolving. 100mg of raw would be something you’d notice if it wasn’t disappearing. Where is it going if not swallowed ?

Like to anyone reading- just try it.

You’ll get the effect within 20 minutes with no swallowing if done correctly.

One possible mechanism is that cell membranes themself are lipophilic.
So I think the actual saliva concept is misleading us from the point that two facts required for absorption are present here. A lipid soluble drug, and a cell membrane that brings in lipid soluble molecules due to the cell membrane itself being nonpolar.
They don’t need saliva to dissolve into if the actual drug molecule makes contact with the actual cells under the tongue. Which is actually easier to accomplish than you’d think when dump powder onto a fully dry tongue then lay the tongue down over that powder. Some saliva may get in that space and interrupt absorption making it slightly slower. But it’s possible to do almost completely dry and spread an even layer of the drug over the surface under the tongue without saliva.

 

[Type-IIx]

Anecdotally the evidence is easily strong enough that this works in my personal opinion.

OoOOoOOo Jeezus, this is such a fucking horseshit response. "Enhanced bodybuilding doesn't relate to human physiology" level stupidity.

I don’t doubt cyclodextrin would help though. But because the effect of the drugs is so easily recognizable, and we all know what they feel like, and the fact that the drugs in their pure form are taken in the 20-100+ mg range, and they fully disappear with no swallowing at all, and dissolve fully relatively quickly, this says to me that there is some way they’re dissolving. 100mg of raw would be something you’d notice if it wasn’t disappearing. Where is it going if not swallowed ?

Like to anyone reading- just try it.

You’ll get the effect within 20 minutes with no swallowing if done correctly.

One possible mechanism is that cell membranes themself are lipophilic.
So I think the actual saliva concept is misleading us from the point that two facts required for absorption are present here. A lipid soluble drug, and a cell membrane that brings in lipid soluble molecules due to the cell membrane itself being nonpolar.
They don’t need saliva to dissolve into if the actual drug molecule makes contact with the actual cells under the tongue. Which is actually easier to accomplish than you’d think when dump powder onto a fully dry tongue then lay the tongue down over that powder. Some saliva may get in that space and interrupt absorption making it slightly slower. But it’s possible to do almost completely dry and spread an even layer of the drug over the surface under the tongue without saliva.

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks Type-IIx.

There's the buccal testosterone pellet. How much do they even get across? 10%?
The there's the Natesto nasal spray. Maybe that would be viable for very low dose stuff.

I think Victor had started berating that Greekl doc, Tatsulianos something for recommending Proviron sublingually. "Where is the proof you idiot!" I imagine him saying Lol.

Oral 17AAs can be administered via the buccal route and still see "decent" bioavailability, methyltestosterone has an elimination half life of elimination half-life of 2.5—3.5 hours via this, so you'd want to administer it 5-6X/d (better than ingested testosterone). The Natesto spray is in solution with castor oil, oleoyl polyoxylglycerides, and colloidal silicon dioxide, which serve to enhance lipophilicity, emulsify and increase solubility, and enhance flow. With Natesto you still have to take 2 pumps per nostril 3X/day for TRT.

 

[b-boy]

OoOOoOOo Jeezus, this is such a fucking horseshit response. "Enhanced bodybuilding doesn't relate to human physiology" level stupidity.

LMFAO......I LOVE when you post!

 

[specter]

LMFAO......I LOVE when you post!

Yeah that made me legit LoL, wife was like "whats so funny" had to go with you wouldnt get it

 

[OuchThatHurts]

One possible mechanism is that cell membranes themself are lipophilic.
So I think the actual saliva concept is misleading us from the point that two facts required for absorption are present here. A lipid soluble drug, and a cell membrane that brings in lipid soluble molecules due to the cell membrane itself being nonpolar.
They don’t need saliva to dissolve into if the actual drug molecule makes contact with the actual cells under the tongue. Which is actually easier to accomplish than you’d think when dump powder onto a fully dry tongue then lay the tongue down over that powder. Some saliva may get in that space and interrupt absorption making it slightly slower. But it’s possible to do almost completely dry and spread an even layer of the drug over the surface under the tongue without saliva,

Makes me think of two quotes (both by the same guy)

"That is not only not right, it is not even wrong."

and,

"What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not."

- Wolfgang Pauli

 

[Alzadosghost]

After 6 weeks at 150 mg a day all taken in one dose pre training my blood work showed only very slight liver elevation. Certainly nothing to be concerned about. Everything looked normal with no flags. I can’t log onto my chart as I can’t remember log in info if I can get into it I’ll post it. Yes the anadrol was real and accurately dosed. There’s my experience. I know a few strongmen who took over 200-300 mg a day for years at a time and they said there were no real negative markers in their blood work either.

 

[specter]

After 6 weeks at 150 mg a day all taken in one dose pre training my blood work showed only very slight liver elevation. Certainly nothing to be concerned about. Everything looked normal with no flags. I can’t log onto my chart as I can’t remember log in info if I can get into it I’ll post it. Yes the anadrol was real and accurately dosed. There’s my experience. I know a few strongmen who took over 200-300 mg a day for years at a time and they said there were no real negative markers in their blood work either.

300mg anadrol a day for years and 0 negative markers ind blood work ? really...

 

[Alzadosghost]

300mg anadrol a day for years and 0 negative markers ind blood work ? really...

Who knows. I didn’t see their blood work. That’s just what they said. Weather is true or not I can’t say for sure. But that was many many years ago and they are still going strong blasting away grams of stuff. I know they were and still are both heavy users like most professional strongman. I mean people lie all the time about what they use. But it’s usually understated and I’m sure they prob used more than they told me. That was 2003-2004 and they are both still alive, strong as hell and huge. I know 150mg a day for 6-7 weeks barely effected my blood work. Anything is possible. The fact they are both still alive blows my mind. Iv lost a few friends to heart attacks who were under 30 and we were all doing the same stuff and I’m still standing.

 

[goback2013]

Who knows. I didn’t see their blood work. That’s just what they said. Weather is true or not I can’t say for sure. But that was many many years ago and they are still going strong blasting away grams of stuff. I know they were and still are both heavy users like most professional strongman. I mean people lie all the time about what they use. But it’s usually understated and I’m sure they prob used more than they told me. That was 2003-2004 and they are both still alive, strong as hell and huge. I know 150mg a day for 6-7 weeks barely effected my blood work. Anything is possible. The fact they are both still alive blows my mind. Iv lost a few friends to heart attacks who were under 30 and we were all doing the same stuff and I’m still standing.

How many of these heart attacks that you're familiar with, are accompanied by heavy stim use ?

 

[Alzadosghost]

Neither of my friends that passed from heart attacks used stimulants. Nor did they drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes or use recreational drugs. Just big huge tall massive men well over 300 lbs that enlarged their hearts from heavy steroid use and high doses of hgh. Both of their autopsies were very similar. Smorgasbord of aas were found and their hearts were extremely enlarged.

 

[Parabolic33]

Makes me think of two quotes (both by the same guy)

"That is not only not right, it is not even wrong."

and,

"What you said was so confused that one could not tell whether it was nonsense or not."

- Wolfgang Pauli

I’ll put it more simply. My bad.

-Just try it-


If you do it right, you’ll clearly see that they do in fact dissolve under the tongue fully and without the need to swallow anything.